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I personally have never viewed subtropical as actually tropical. From the first time I heard that word, I associated it with the U.S. South -- cool-to-mild winters and hot summers, the latter being the most important thing.
It seems based on these threads that my perception is the minority. Perhaps it's because of the word "tropical", but it seems people who see that word think of places that are very warm year-round instead of a place with a hot and long summer.
I've also seen people who say that there should be a "warm temperate" classification to separate from the "true subtropical". Personally, I believe that changing the subtropical word to warm temperate would get rid of that perception, and therefore no one would go crazy over places like New York City and the southern part of Boswash being called subtropical.
I personally have never viewed subtropical as actually tropical. From the first time I heard that word, I associated it with the U.S. South -- cool-to-mild winters and hot summers, the latter being the most important thing.
I'm the same way myself. Subtropical to me has always had a connotation of tropical-like conditions in summer coupled with barely-there winters. I guess it depends on what type you're used to, and the closest Cfa zone to us is the American South.
Quote:
It seems based on these threads that my perception is the minority. Perhaps it's because of the word "tropical", but it seems people who see that word think of places that are very warm year-round instead of a place with a hot and long summer.
I personally make an analogy to subarctic. Subarctic has a long, cold winter that's like the true arctic, and subtropical has a long, hot summer that's like the true tropics. Subarctic has a warm summer that differentiates it from the true arctic, and subtropical has a cool winter that differentiates it from the true tropics. And just as subtropical climates can get cold in winter, subarctic climates can get hot in summer, but in both of them it's short, fleeting, and/or rare.
[quote]I've also seen people who say that there should be a "warm temperate" classification to separate from the "true subtropical". Personally, I believe that changing the subtropical word to warm temperate would get rid of that perception, and therefore no one would go crazy over places like New York City and the southern part of Boswash being called subtropical./quote]
Warm temperate just doesn't sound right to me; subtropical better describes a place that has long, hot summers that usually feature lows around 70F. My conception of "temperate" is basically an oceanic temperature profile, of mild winters and mild summers, and long, hot summers don't fit into that, any more than northern Sweden's long, cold winters fit into a cool temperate classification. Now, if you're using a broader definition of "temperate" to mean any midlatitude climate, like Trewartha uses in his classification, then it would fit. Which definition you use is really up to you. Strictly speaking there's no right or wrong answer, and in any case both terms describe the same thing.
Warm summer temperate would be a better name for somewhere like NYC, as opposed to cool summer temperate where I live or places like London or Vancouver.
Calling NYC warm temperate implies that it's warm all year, which is certainly not the case - same with calling it subtropical.
The subarctic analogy doesn't really stack up. Reykjavik hardly has a true arctic winter. There are places in NZ, that have lower daily minimums in winter.
I'm the same way myself. Subtropical to me has always had a connotation of tropical-like conditions in summer coupled with barely-there winters. I guess it depends on what type you're used to, and the closest Cfa zone to us is the American South.
I'm grew up in the Cfa zone, or at least near the very edge of it and my idea of subtropical was rather different. Temperate to me meant any mid-latitude climate with seasons, though not necessarily even.
Goes to show that most of these arguments are just semantics.
Subtropical should be called Humid transitional or Sub temperate due to having both characteristics
I don't see somewhere like Boston as being transitional though. It does have a warm summer, but don't see anything transitional about the winter. Vegetation is the best indication of transition.
I don't see somewhere like Boston as being transitional though. It does have a warm summer, but don't see anything transitional about the winter. Vegetation is the best indication of transition.
Vegetation wise, it's the northern edge of the decideous forest and northwards beings the transition to a conifer forest, starting with a gradual mixing.
If winter = permanent snow, it's slightly too warm for seasonal snow cover.
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