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That's like saying "its not cold that will kill you, its hypothermia/frost bite." Dehydration is a direct result of the heat, especially dry heat.
Not really, because people can die of dehydration at any temperature. It's actually quite easy to become dehydrated in extreme cold. And if you drink enough fluids (adding a little sugar and salt is important if your fluid is plain water), you're not going to become dehydrated even if it's over 40C.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms
That's like saying "its not cold that will kill you, its hypothermia/frost bite." Dehydration is a direct result of the heat, especially dry heat.
Where you live is likely not humid in the summer. Last summer, before I bought a window unit, my house got to 90 degrees inside. Even without AC, a fan was still very much needed. I cannot sleep in high temperatures. May not necessarily kill you (unless you're very feeble) but its not healthy, either.
I was born in Cuba. Lived there as a baby til I was two. No AC down there. Its pretty miserable but everyone has a ceiling fan at least, and that counts as modern cooling. We also had to sleep in mosquito tents. Only time I returned since I left in the '90s was in 2005 in November. Even in the fall it was hot but not as bad as summer can get. Very big difference between a Mediterranean and a tropical summer. And even a continental and subtropical.
I agree, its much easier for the cold to kill you, but thats because we live in a planet that gets colder in winter than it gets hot in summer. I guarantee its easier to survive -50 F than 150 F. But most places don't get warmer than the 120s, most places cap out at 100 to begin with. Whats worse... touching the inside of a freezer at -20 or the inside of an oven at 450?
Saibot lives in Rancho Santa Margarita, CA which is in Orange County, so yeah, not humid
If you're talking about modern heating and a/c units, I'd say a/c, because there is really no other way to make air cool, but there are ways to heat air that are not heating units. Fireplaces, campfires, bundling up in small areas with multiple people (the Alaskans did this for centuries), special clothing and hats. Bodies put out heat on their own, even. Those ways may not be efficient, but they exist and were in fact used since the discovery of fire.
However, it'd have to be pretty hot for people not to be able to live somewhere. For me, it wouldn't take much. I hate the heat. But could I manage to live in a hot area w/o a/c and work and thrive? Yes, if I had to. I'd be in a perennially bad mood, though, and very unhappy. Crime goes up when it gets hot. So maybe everyone is unhappy in hot weather.
I'm an Eagle Scout so I've camped out in extreme conditions. I once got frostbite on a 12F morning (and 12F is barely cold compared to -20F or -25F like some places get or even worse...) while hiking and my boot went through the ice. I couldn't warm that foot up the whole time I was there, fortunately I didn't lose any tissue.
I've also camped out at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. The high was 118 and the low was 90. It was rough sleeping but I hydrated and did okay.
Heating is essential, at least a fire. Without a fire you can't melt ice which means you'll dehydrate. Dehydration is the main way to die whether in cold or heat. If you look at the various migrants that had frostbite crossing into the Canadian prairies and lost their hands, you know the cold is dangerous. Extreme heat is dangerous as well if you don't have water. But extreme cold is dangerous even if you have 7 layers on and a parka. All it takes is one fall through the ice and you're a goner...
Now, there are some fragile people with MS, elderly, or infants that succumb to high heat in places with no A/C. But a healthy person will not die from the heat unless they are stupid. For extreme cold, even an experienced mountain man can succumb with one mistake.
Cold is far more dangerous than heat. This is both self-evident and well-supported by observational evidence. This study found cold is attributable to roughly 20 times more deaths than heat.
Mortality risk attributable to high and low ambient temperature: a multicountry observational study
Gasparrini, A. et al 2015 Lancet
Findings
We analysed 74 225 200 deaths in various periods between 1985 and 2012. In total, 7·71% (95% empirical CI 7·43–7·91) of mortality was attributable to non-optimum temperature in the selected countries within the study period, with substantial differences between countries, ranging from 3·37% (3·06 to 3·63) in Thailand to 11·00% (9·29 to 12·47) in China. The temperature percentile of minimum mortality varied from roughly the 60th percentile in tropical areas to about the 80–90th percentile in temperate regions. More temperature-attributable deaths were caused by cold (7·29%, 7·02–7·49) than by heat (0·42%, 0·39–0·44). Extreme cold and hot temperatures were responsible for 0·86% (0·84–0·87) of total mortality.
Last edited by Ed's Mountain; 01-06-2019 at 08:36 PM..
Reason: Typo
Ok, we've agreed that heating is far more essential than air conditioning.
However, it still begs the question: Why, then, was the Deep South sparsely inhabited even when the Upper Midwest was far more populated? Maybe it has nothing to do with the climate, and everything to do with economics? That the South was heavily damaged and still largely agrarian post Civil War, while the North was already well-industrialized?
Ok, we've agreed that heating is far more essential than air conditioning.
However, it still begs the question: Why, then, was the Deep South sparsely inhabited even when the Upper Midwest was far more populated? Maybe it has nothing to do with the climate, and everything to do with economics? That the South was heavily damaged and still largely agrarian post Civil War, while the North was already well-industrialized?
The economics certainly played a major role, but wasn't central heating developed in the 19th century? Modern electrical air conditioning was invented by Willis Carrier in 1902. In the 1800s, modern heating was developed but modern air conditioning was not.
The economics certainly played a major role, but wasn't central heating developed in the 19th century? Modern electrical air conditioning was invented by Willis Carrier in 1902. In the 1800s, modern heating was developed but modern air conditioning was not.
Sure, but why does everyone say that Houston or Orlando were hardly habitable before the advent of air con while no one says, for example, that Quebec City or Minneapolis or Moscow were hardly habitable before the advent of heating?
Sure, but why does everyone say that Houston or Orlando were hardly habitable before the advent of air con while no one says, for example, that Quebec City or Minneapolis or Moscow were hardly habitable before the advent of heating?
That's because people have forgotten.
The advent of heating can reasonably be associated with the human control of fire. That's some 100,000 to 1,000,000 years ago. It's so long ago that people have forgotten about it and it no longer rates a mention.
Cold is far more dangerous than heat. This is both self-evident and well-supported by observational evidence. This study found cold is attributable to roughly 20 times more deaths than heat.
I wonder what their thresholds of "moderate" and "extreme" cold/heat were.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms
That's like saying "its not cold that will kill you, its hypothermia/frost bite." Dehydration is a direct result of the heat, especially dry heat.
Where you live is likely not humid in the summer. Last summer, before I bought a window unit, my house got to 90 degrees inside. Even without AC, a fan was still very much needed. I cannot sleep in high temperatures. May not necessarily kill you (unless you're very feeble) but its not healthy, either.
I was born in Cuba. Lived there as a baby til I was two. No AC down there. Its pretty miserable but everyone has a ceiling fan at least, and that counts as modern cooling. We also had to sleep in mosquito tents. Only time I returned since I left in the '90s was in 2005 in November. Even in the fall it was hot but not as bad as summer can get. Very big difference between a Mediterranean and a tropical summer. And even a continental and subtropical.
I agree, its much easier for the cold to kill you, but thats because we live in a planet that gets colder in winter than it gets hot in summer. I guarantee its easier to survive -50 F than 150 F. But most places don't get warmer than the 120s, most places cap out at 100 to begin with. Whats worse... touching the inside of a freezer at -20 or the inside of an oven at 450?
If we eventually burn all available fossil fuel reserves the opposite might become true. I can definitely see 120 F become the new 100 F in a world that's 15 F warmer.
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