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A lot of posts seem to be saying that this is OK because companies are unethical all the time so it's only fair.
People are totally ignoring who this really hurt. The other unemployed people looking for a job. So when people are justifying this it's basically saying "screw all those other unemployed people who were honest, at least I got mine".
I bet most of them are not 100 % honest. I know, it might be hard to swallow, but this is the real world. If I did not have any good personal references I would make my friends professional references. It does not mean I can't do my new job.
Then you should realize you are more fortunate than most. A good number of the people laid off and jobless or new grads are awesome workers willing to work their butt off and would excel at the job. There just is no reward for it in a lot of cases.
I would certainly not rather lie and cheat. I'd love to work hard excel and be rewarded at least a little. However, time after time I see that it no longer works that way. No matter how hard I work, I get no raise or benefits, I'm just as likely to be dumped back into unemployment, and I have just as much difficulty getting a new job as some putz who got fired for photocopying his butt on the xerox machine all day long.
The OP worked for a company for 5 years and didn't have a single person to give a positive reference? That is his fault.
If you are nervous about losing your job, then you are not good enough at your job. If you would rather work hard than lie and cheat, stop acting like a scumbag and try harder. There is no excuse for conning your way through life.
I bet most of them are not 100 % honest. I know, it might be hard to swallow, but this is the real world. If I did not have any good personal references I would make my friends professional references. It does not mean I can't do my new job.
and as I said references are meaningless. Few companies will give any reference, nearly none will give negative references, and those that do without extreme cause that really reflects on them more than the candidate.
I bet most of them are not 100 % honest. I know, it might be hard to swallow, but this is the real world. If I did not have any good personal references I would make my friends professional references. It does not mean I can't do my new job.
That's fine. But it doesn't change my point. This isn't a "sticking it to the man" situation as many seem to be saying. This is a "sticking it to the unemployed guy next to me" situation.
PEOPLE, PEOPLE, PEOPLE.......listen up here: First of all, like my previous posting says, I'm 61......yes, a Baby Boomer looking for a job!! I don't think anybody likes/wants to lie or decieve on their resume. IFyou have the PERFECT resume with PERFECT references you don't have to!!!!!!!! But, for those that don't, AND the way things are today in the damn employment world, a person REALLY has to do something!
Come on now......geshhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
No need to shout. At 61 years of age you probably have a lot of work experience and at your age it's obviously harder to land a job for many different reasons. I'm older than you (65 in a few weeks) and am still working VERY hard in my own business and just getting by keeping a roof above my head. I have no hope at all of comfortably retiring in the foreseeable future (if ever!) and obviously my job references from over 15 years ago are, to say the least, sorely outdated. I would still never lie or fabricate a work history if I have to go out in today's job market. If that happens then I'll let you know the results. Good luck!
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeet09
I'm going to quote the section from the original post below. Five years and then told it was a bad fit? Sounds kinda shady. The employer seemed to have given a template excuse and there was no plan to improve performance if there was an issue of one. The OP was not told there was an issue that needed to be worked on.
I think there is probably more to this story than has been told. Despite some states' "at will" employment laws it seems that many workers are sorely ignorant about those laws and it's rather incongruous to me that an employee is summarily let go after five years because the employee is a "bad fit" and doesn't contact the local State Labor Department to lodge a protest. The OP has posted only once on this forum and once on another. The smell from the troll under the bridge is rather reminiscent of former poster "Weekend Traveler" who, before he was ousted from CD, posted numerous threads simply designed to create melee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SassySpice
What the hell is the matter with you people, you act like the op commited a felony or something! So he lied about his references, big damn deal! I don't have to tell you how bad the job market is since so many of you are unemployed & have been for months/years, so he did what he thought he had to do. And all this nonsense about karma for using his own ingenuity for getting a job is ridiculous. Congrads to op for outsmarting the fox. To the naysayers as you continue to become more & more desperate for employment who knows how low you may go. Never say never.........remember?
This naysayer is employed. Self-employed but employed nonetheless. And this naysayer has also steadily worked since she was 16 years old, is now almost 65 and simply won't lie to get a job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80
and as I said references are meaningless. Few companies will give any reference, nearly none will give negative references, and those that do without extreme cause that really reflects on them more than the candidate.
And you base this on what? Personal experience? Just asking, curious.
And you base this on what? Personal experience? Just asking, curious.
Every large company I've worked for and most of the small ones had a company policy that we just give title, salary, and dates of employment. The only person I ever saw give a negative reference was a professor who's research group I was in in grad school. He was a total sociopath though he can't do anything short of murdering someone that would get him in any trouble.
Every large company I've worked for and most of the small ones had a company policy that we just give title, salary, and dates of employment.
Exactly!
My hubby's previous employer had a line specifically in the employee handbook that forbid employees to give references for former employers. All inquiries had to be done through the HR department. If not, disciplinary action would be taken.
I wasn't shouting, only making a bold statement! If a person can lay a "Golden Egg" fine, but there are those of us that cann't for whatever reasons and have to do something else that will appear to be a "Golden Egg". Hopefully you won't have to, but if you do.........you just might see why the OP did what he did........plainly and clearly out of necessity!!
One thing I've learned from my 61 years of life, "a person's got ta do what a person's got ta do!!" Gee, how many of us have really led trustworthy, honest lives?? Ok, "Ican not tell a lie........I sure haven't!!"
From STT Resident:
No need to shout. At 61 years of age you probably have a lot of work experience and at your age it's obviously harder to land a job for many different reasons. I'm older than you (65 in a few weeks) and am still working VERY hard in my own business and just getting by keeping a roof above my head. I have no hope at all of comfortably retiring in the foreseeable future (if ever!) and obviously my job references from over 15 years ago are, to say the least, sorely outdated. I would still never lie or fabricate a work history if I have to go out in today's job market. If that happens then I'll let you know the results. Good luck!
Every large company I've worked for and most of the small ones had a company policy that we just give title, salary, and dates of employment. The only person I ever saw give a negative reference was a professor who's research group I was in in grad school. He was a total sociopath though he can't do anything short of murdering someone that would get him in any trouble.
I'm not butting heads here but when you say, "Every large company I've worked for and most of the small ones had a company policy that we just give title, salary, and dates of employment" were you actually part of the hiring process? In other words did the "we" include you? Again, I'm not trying to butt heads but my experience has been a little different and although I know that most major corporate entities prefer to take the easy route and simply prefer these days just to acknowledge the basics, I've found that smaller companies/businesses can, given the right input, divulge negatives in a very subtle way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeet09
Exactly!
My hubby's previous employer had a line specifically in the employee handbook that forbid employees to give references for former employers. All inquiries had to be done through the HR department. If not, disciplinary action would be taken.
That's not unusual at all. Employment references from fellow employees mean zilch to a prospective employer.
That's not unusual at all. Employment references from fellow employees mean zilch to a prospective employer.
When I meant employees, I also meant from direct supervisors. The direct supervisors couldn't give a reference either.
If a company goes out of business and that's all someone has (a contact name and number for a co worker), it's better than nothing.
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