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For now, keep your money. If the child wants to go to college, there's a community college down the road and all the basic credits will transfer. Much cheaper. The child can work and pay for it while living at home. This will show you if the child is serious about education or just going to school because it's there.
If your child successfully completes his/her 2 years at community college, maybe you should pay for the rest and after graduation, give him/her the down payment for a house.
You'll end up way ahead too. You can keep your money invested for at least 2 extra years and this option will get your child the exact same degree for less money.
Community college credits don't always transfer. It's important to plan your entire undergraduate college career prior to committing to community college.
For example, my university does not accept transfer credits from any college, community or 4-year. Many good universities accept very few (as little as 2%) of transfer applicants.
OP, how long until your son applies for college? The best thing you can do before now and then invest in your son to make sure he gets into a good school, gets a full ride, and can stand on his own two feet. A lot of parents save money for college, but fail to provide the guidance, tutors, testing classes, etc to make sure the child is best prepared for the admission process.
News flash: Chinese teachers are not getting 20k Family Health Insurance for next to squat plus pensions for life.
When they do, it will be an apples-to-apples comparison. Right now, its absurd.
News flash! Chinese hospitals are not going broke because patients cannot afford their medical bills! I would suggest that the real problem in this country is that health insurance is costing the employer 20K. Maybe if we had more buyer beware and fewer parasite class action lawsuit lawyers destroying everything they touch, our country wouldn't be on the perpetual decline... Health insurance companies boasting the 3 highest paid CEO's out of 10 probably is also a good indication of what's really going on here... If only Aetna would start paying decent dividends, I could feel like part of the white shoe boy club as well...
News flash! Chinese hospitals are not going broke because patients cannot afford their medical bills! I would suggest that the real problem in this country is that health insurance is costing the employer 20K. Maybe if we had more buyer beware and fewer parasite class action lawsuit lawyers destroying everything they touch, our country wouldn't be on the perpetual decline... Health insurance companies boasting the 3 highest paid CEO's out of 10 probably is also a good indication of what's really going on as well... If only Aetna would start paying decent dividends, I could feel like part of the club as well...
Perhaps, but I do not want Chinese quality medicine. What we have is costly, but I like the quality of care. I formerly worked for one of the largest medical equipment companies..it is astounding how much this wonderful technology costs. What distressed me is the medical division was LESS profitable than most sister corps, who made stuff NOT vital to life.
Andy, You seem like a nice guy, but you react (and I do not mean to sound condescending) as most hourly, blue collar people would. Without a true understanding of how immaterial starting pay is in a professional career. That is something quite frankly professionals only realize after several professional jobs. In the blue collar world, your pay will be your starting pay/hr plus a COL annually, and maybe 1-2% beyond that at small employers. Not the same in professional roles. I make more by the middle of Monday now than I did in a WEEK at my first professional job.
So you started at ~35-40k (low for starting) and now are making more than $350-400k a year? And you actually think that's representative of where most professionals end up? You seem like a nice guy, but you react (and I do not mean to sound condescending) as most spoiled, spoon-fed, top-tier MBA graduate 1%ers would. That or you're not very good at math or are really old and don't get the concept of inflation. And if you think teachers routinely get ten-fold increases... well, 1%ers just don't get the world I guess. The only teachers pulling that kind of dough are university researches with a ton of consulting and/or research moneys... the kind that lecture three hours a week but never grade papers and are totally unapproachable, aka not teachers.
I agree, there's a huge income growth. I went from making $30k (35 w/ bonus!) to $55k base in a year. Had I continued in that career path, gone and got my MBA, I'd probably be making low six figures. Most don't move much above that.
Malloric, my point is in professional America, a mature, past mid career level employee will have compensation that is SEVERAL times their starting compensation. This is after decades in their field of expertise, with continuous upgrading of skills. In blue collar America, several to 1 will NEVER happen. 3 to 1 will NEVER happen.
So I agree in blue collar America, starting salary is vital.
PS, a teacher with a Masters after a decade will be making 60k with ease in many states, with ultra low Health Care costs, and a fabulous pension.
. That or you're not very good at math or are really old and don't get the concept of inflation.s.
I feel old, more than 25 years (yikes close to 30 yrs!) since I went for my bachelors. (In early 80s, many in 1st level mgmt were not making 35k, by the way). But inflation-get real, for better or worse, it does not exist as it should. Our government is keeping interest rates TOO low, in a fruitless attempt to juice the economy.
But with siblings who worked in state government, I am well aware how valuable their pensions and ultra deluxe Health Care are, and also, how unsustainable for their states. That should be noted when discussing teachers compensation.
Andy, You seem like a nice guy, but you react (and I do not mean to sound condescending) as most hourly, blue collar people would. Without a true understanding of how immaterial starting pay is in a professional career. That is something quite frankly professionals only realize after several professional jobs. In the blue collar world, your pay will be your starting pay/hr plus a COL annually, and maybe 1-2% beyond that at small employers. Not the same in professional roles. I make more by the middle of Monday now than I did in a WEEK at my first professional job.
In the blue collar world, they can't gain the upper hand by offering salary. All blue collar (standing on feet) workers get OT whether salary or not. It's labor law. There is no reason to go salary, even though they offer it at both my previous job, and the one I'm at now.
And I understand the importance of gaining experience first, without much regard to starting wages. Per union contracts when I started my career, we started at half top rate. Today, I make more than I started with, working in a non union environment, so I make no complaints regarding my position on the ladder. After 7 years, my wages increased 50%, but my workload nearly tripled. I don't work there no more... I'll gladly take a modest 30% increase to keep my sanity, health, and peace of mind.
And for most blue collar workers, their wages really haven't kept up. They've found themselves marginalized out of once decent jobs. Guess what? What comes around, goes around. They told their kids to find something else to do for a living. A few lucky ones like me have overcome adversity and became a complete thorn in managements side by being the guys they cannot get rid of, no matter how much they would love to. I could have walked up to my manager and unloaded a barrage of insults all I wanted. If they wanted the work done, there wasn't a damn thing they could do about it. They love to threaten, whine and cry about how we had to make sacrifices, but it's all hot air. Unfortunately, by paying teachers significantly less, on average, you're going to get a an exponentially worse ROI.
And you're right, I am a nice guy... I have nothing but glowing references from the management I have worked for. Heck, I consider more than a few of them friends, and still keep in contact. So much so that when I left my last job, I got a barrage of insults levied my way by management for leaving them behind
I'm the guy you love to have on your side, but the one you hate when you lose... Got a job you need done? No problem, for a competitive wage/benefit structure. And no, tearing down everyone else's wage/benefit structure does not count!
Malloric, my point is in professional America, a mature, past mid career level employee will have compensation that is SEVERAL times their starting compensation. This is after decades in their field of expertise, with continuous upgrading of skills. In blue collar America, several to 1 will NEVER happen. 3 to 1 will NEVER happen.
So I agree in blue collar America, starting salary is vital.
PS, a teacher with a Masters after a decade will be making 60k with ease in many states, with ultra low Health Care costs, and a fabulous pension.
And starting salary for teachers averages well over $30k across the US. So you're looking at a less than 100% increase from entry-level and including going back to school, and that's with decades of experience. No offence, but I did that in a year of experience and without going back to school for an MBA. True, I only had a regular private-sector benefits package and a year-end bonus.
Decades of experience and a master's degree vs. one year of experience in an entry-level position. 'Course that was then. All accounting pay is nothing like it used to be. There haven't been any 60-70k starting (inc. bonuses) w/ second year associates making $80-90k in public accounting for some time now, which trickles down to the less glamorous. The only people making that are engineers now coming out of college.
Educators are coming in at the bottom of payscales and they have far less income growth potential. Maybe that works for kindergarten teachers, but as long as health sciences and business majors are paying more out the door with significantly more upward mobility and social prestige, you're going to have braindrain where our education is weakest -- science and math. Health science and business aren't engineering. They're easy majors, this coming from a failed engineer.
Educators are coming in at the bottom of payscales and they have far less income growth potential. Maybe that works for kindergarten teachers, but as long as health sciences and business majors are paying more out the door with significantly more upward mobility and social prestige, you're going to have braindrain where our education is weakest -- science and math. .
What you continue to ignore is why many teachers (the majority) stay. Great Health In surance, great pensions, and above average stability. Until this recession, laying off teachers was science fiction. Those upwardly mobile professions you mentioned do not share any of those attributes.
My brother was offered private sector employment many times during a 3 decade career in government..each time for a huge increase in salary, and bonus capacity. In every case, the positions offered were eliminated within 5 years. Try valuing that tradeoff.
Perhaps if we stopped giving these same crazy benefit packages to government janitors, and if we stopped overstaffing superintendents staffing levels, teachers could be paid more. Good luck convincing the AFSCME to accept such tradeoffs. I hope you can, as we need to redirect government spending, and I'd like to see lower level jobs outsourced to reallocate scarce resources.
In blue collar America, several to 1 will NEVER happen. 3 to 1 will NEVER happen.
So I agree in blue collar America, starting salary is vital.
I have seen pay stubs of lead production swiss machinists that put them on track for 120K a year here in Chicago. I also lost $50 on a bet to find that information out. Like any other profession, you get what you pay for. Pretty sweet payout for a HS grad if I may say so myself
But in all seriousness, let's be frank... We both work on opposite ends of manufacturing. I'm blue collar and you're white collar. The strange thing is, I'm incredibly young for blue collar work in my trade. If you had to hire a guy for my position, I would be willing to make a bet... Out of 10 applicants, 10 would be over 40, and 8 would be 50 and up. What do you think that situation will be like in another decade? More than likely, you will be trying to get your work done in Europe, where the wages are even higher, as is the cost of doing business. Good luck training the next generation here, they don't want to do your low paying work, and all the old guys told em not to bother, it ain't worth the effort.
You see, if you keep chiseling away at the payout, people eventually stop pursuing it. People in my trade are smart enough to do the math... On the wages some places purpose, you ain't gonna retire! So, the young people look to other careers. I don't blame them one bit, and I would tell most of them not to bother. Unless you're the guy who can do it all, you'll be making Florida teacher's hourly pay. If you're smart enough to be the guy who can do it all, you might as well have been a doctor, or an engineer, or something society deems worthy of dignified treatment.
So, what do you think is going to happen in a profession like teaching, where we expect them to start at under 30K to deal with your spoiled, bratty, smart alack kids? No one is going to pursue that profession, just like mine! Eventually, WSJ will cry there's a teacher's shortage, just like every other profession that doesn't pay what the ground level worker is worth, and the cycle will continue.
If we are such a great nation, why are the backbones of the labor class marginalized to such extremes? Why do we expect teachers (who are educating our greatest form of infrastructure) to work for such miniscule incomes? If you ask me, GOOD teachers should be the best paid professionals in this country. Certainly better paid than the scum of Hollywood or Wallstreet.
If you really wanted kids to be competitive on the global scale, you would make it worthwhile for people to rise to that challenge. First, you would pay to attract the talent and the brains. Smart people simply won't seek low paying careers en mass. Some are nice and want to take on noble challenges, but let's be real here... Second, you would reward American's, from ground level on up, for pursuing honest, noble professions that require something beyond shaking salt on the french fries.
Instead, we have marginalization and sacrifice in the private sector, which leads to a reduction in tax receipts for the public sector, which leads to union teachers being laid off en mass and being replaces by desperate and hungry temps for 13 bucks an hour. Prosperity? Sure, if 13 bucks an hour buys you all the good, smart, decent teachers a nation requires. I'll give you a hint though... It won't. Try something around 40K average, any maybe you'll get somewhere. Try 50 average, and you might start competing with nations that actually care where their kids place (and don't give them trophies for merely showing up). We need a boost in our math scores, not a boost in the ego/self esteem department. Trust me, they have enough of that...
As I've mentioned before, we cannot compete with the Chinese on price, yet we refuse to pursue the high standards of more intellectually advanced nations that rear better performing (on average) young people. Yet we like to convince ourselves we are somehow the greatest nation on the planet. Too bad that ego can't be used to pay off our ballooning deficits, or the soaring costs of student loans without advanced level jobs to cover them. If I were a business owner, I would be going elsewhere to find the smart kids to get my work done unfortunately, and this is coming from a patriotic, red blooded American, who doesn't have time to deal with can't do attitudes. Can't have good benefits, can't have decent wages, can't have the opportunity to provide children with a decent education... Where would we be if the founding fathers of this great nation had such a can't do attitude, or if the greatest generation had such a can't do attitude on the beaches of Normandy? Crap, with the attitude we have today in this country, we would have simply surrendered after Pearl Harbor.
Last edited by andywire; 06-10-2012 at 01:53 AM..
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