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Tithing is a part of Christian doctrine, therefore I don't see a problem with making it a condition of appointment or employment for leaders within a Christian organization.
That being said, tithing was originally established to help the poor; if the illness of this man's child was causing a financial hardship for the family he should probably been granted an exemption. Again, that's assuming that the family was facing financial hardship; nobody has mentioned whether or not he was seen heading to the Gulf towing a new boat behind his Escalade.
All that is moot given the breach of confidentiality, though. Separation of employment is pretty common procedure if you are privy to sensitive information and let that information slip out. Sounds like they had grounds for cutting him loose, but if that was the real reason there was no point to bringing up the tithing issue.
Was married to someone who has been on two church staffs and have been able to watch the sausage being made. Church politics makes office politics look like child's play. Most people would be sick if they saw what went on behind closed doors at church staff meetings, elder's meetings or leadership board meetings. After receiving terrible treatment at one church, our family was gullible to think that it was just a problem with our church. But when it happened again I realized that churches all over are tough places to work. I would never encourage anyone to join the paid staff of a church.
Found out that churches are legally exempt from having to contribute to unemployment, but you would think morally they would want to. Our family got shoved out the door, got a pittance of a severance package, were left without friends and a church home that could give moral support in our time of need.
Personally, I wouldn't get involved in a church. This crap goes on all the time in churches. For the record, I never recognized myself as a Lutheran even though I attended a Lutheran church long ago when I was a kid. Sunday school classes were a joke; talk about office politics, this was like a big ass kissing convention. The people who are hired as paid help for most churches tend to be a bit flaky themselves and the good ones that actually are hired in usually quit or get fired for some BS church crap. Here's a story from when I was forced to attend 'church':
Once my Sunday school class had an after church meeting at the house of one of the Sunday School teachers and when I got there, they had some tape playing with obscene sexual talk while they were in the living room. From the moment I sat down on the couch I knew this was a bunch of freaks. A few of the Sunday school teachers were there (mid to late 20s at the time) and they didn't seem to care that a bunch of teens were listening to some weird porno tape on the boombox during a supposedly church supported 'party'. I suppose a lot of people might find references to 'relocating the girls shower room to the principal's office' funny or hot, but I can't imagine that it's something a church would consider a part of its religious studies. But then again, who knows; half of the churches come across to me as being a bunch of perverts anyways. Also, the other kids were smoking and acting wierd in the back yard and one of the chaperones, this really fat guy, looks at me like he's going to eat me. Yeah, stay away from me, Jabba the Hut...I eventually walked out of the party and walked home (it was a few blocks from my house).
That was an extreme case, but every Sunday school class I've dealt with in my life was like that; a bunch of perverts and lowlives. I hate to have viered off topic, but this kind of shows why churches sometimes can be worse than for-profit employers. I know that some non-profits can be nasty; my sister worked as an accounting intern for the local zoo (yes, it's literally a zoo) and the previous director of the zoo (who was pretty cool) was replaced by this psycho bimbo from some Alaska firm that basically ran the zoo into the ground. She ended up firing half of the zookeeper staff (yeah, let no one supervise the 5000 lb rhino that roams the place or the 11000 lb elephant) and once rode the lawn tractor while drunk during a company picnic. And there was a neverending stream of drama and BS from the director and the minions she put into power.
I go to a semi-mega church in the Houston area (we have about 700 members) and our music director got fired after working there for over 10 years.
He was highly talented and well respected by the church community, which is what was so shocking. The head pastor had a small meeting after church on Sunday to discuss it with anyone who was interested and I decided to attend. The official reason given was because "he shared confidential information from one of their executive committee meetings." Also, we were told that he hadn't donated any money to the church in a year and a half.
Apparently, if you work there you are supposed to give 10% of your salary back to the church. The guy did have a small child who was ill and had several surgeries, so that is probably why he couldn't donate. Now he won't have any money to pay for her medical bills or feed her. I always thought churches were supposed to be compassionate.
Five families walked out of that meeting and told the pastor to his face they were leaving and would never come back. Most of the other people in the room were also very angry about it.
Anyway, I guess nasty workplace drama happens even in churches. Yeah, people suck.
1st of all, 'suck' is not a term a 'good' church member shoulh use. the rest of what you said has my nod....This guy shoukd be allowed the money decision an they shouldn't say anything in a commity meeting they didn't want out. Churches are ;ike people...they are multi faceted. spawned by the make up of 'leadership'....giving way to power wielding and greed. Such a shame...they are missing the pointS. why didn't yoy walk if you felt a need to post? GOD Blees Them ALL....you too
Really need to watch out when the senior pastor either catches the church growth bug or starts thinking about their legacy. Every week something is tweaked, staff yelled at if they find out somebody left for another church, costly remodel jobs as if having a different paint job in the lobby will be the deciding factor if someone chooses that church. It is mind boggling what happens at churches.
Will admit to being jaded right now, but there are good churches out there and if you find one don't leave. But if one of my kids told me that they want to work for a church I will sit them down and talk them out of it.
I probably would have walked as well if I attended church. That is messed up that theyd require a person who is essentially an employee, to donate back their salary.
Personally, I wouldn't get involved in a church. This crap goes on all the time in churches. For the record, I never recognized myself as a Lutheran even though I attended a Lutheran church long ago when I was a kid. Sunday school classes were a joke; talk about office politics, this was like a big ass kissing convention. The people who are hired as paid help for most churches tend to be a bit flaky themselves and the good ones that actually are hired in usually quit or get fired for some BS church crap. Here's a story from when I was forced to attend 'church':
Once my Sunday school class had an after church meeting at the house of one of the Sunday School teachers and when I got there, they had some tape playing with obscene sexual talk while they were in the living room. From the moment I sat down on the couch I knew this was a bunch of freaks. A few of the Sunday school teachers were there (mid to late 20s at the time) and they didn't seem to care that a bunch of teens were listening to some weird porno tape on the boombox during a supposedly church supported 'party'. I suppose a lot of people might find references to 'relocating the girls shower room to the principal's office' funny or hot, but I can't imagine that it's something a church would consider a part of its religious studies. But then again, who knows; half of the churches come across to me as being a bunch of perverts anyways. Also, the other kids were smoking and acting wierd in the back yard and one of the chaperones, this really fat guy, looks at me like he's going to eat me. Yeah, stay away from me, Jabba the Hut...I eventually walked out of the party and walked home (it was a few blocks from my house).
That was an extreme case, but every Sunday school class I've dealt with in my life was like that; a bunch of perverts and lowlives. I hate to have viered off topic, but this kind of shows why churches sometimes can be worse than for-profit employers. I know that some non-profits can be nasty; my sister worked as an accounting intern for the local zoo (yes, it's literally a zoo) and the previous director of the zoo (who was pretty cool) was replaced by this psycho bimbo from some Alaska firm that basically ran the zoo into the ground. She ended up firing half of the zookeeper staff (yeah, let no one supervise the 5000 lb rhino that roams the place or the 11000 lb elephant) and once rode the lawn tractor while drunk during a company picnic. And there was a neverending stream of drama and BS from the director and the minions she put into power.
Churches are not far from that themselves.
I never had the bolded experience, but had problems with every Sunday school class and Bible study I attended (with the exception of the Beth Moore and Priscilla Shirer studies I attended). That said, in the church we're attending now, I had a bad experience and was VERY upset with some of the teachings, which is why I stopped attending those classes. Another parishioner noticed and asked me why. His sister runs the church's daycare and his family is one of the founding families, so I was uncomfortable at first, but eventually he wore me down and I let it all out.
God works in mysterious ways sometimes. Our conversations led this man to start up a NEW Sunday school class for us adults who "don't know much" other than what we were taught to memorize as children in catechism class. (We're called "baby Christians", btw) I LOVE this class - he did find a cirriculum to help us get started but that is ONLY our 'jumping off point'. He does a lot of research to ANSWER our questions, and not just see every question as an affront or insult to his faith. His class started with 5 of us and is now (6 weeks later) at about 15 - not bad for a 100 member church!
If you live in the Dallas area, or even will just be visiting on a Sunday, PM me and I'll send you one back, inviting you to our church. I'll even make lunch for you and your family afterward, so we can continue the conversation, if you'd like! It's so refreshing to get to ask all those questions I always had and GET ANSWERS not a self-righteous response!
I go to a semi-mega church in the Houston area (we have about 700 members) and our music director got fired after working there for over 10 years.
He was highly talented and well respected by the church community, which is what was so shocking. The head pastor had a small meeting after church on Sunday to discuss it with anyone who was interested and I decided to attend. The official reason given was because "he shared confidential information from one of their executive committee meetings." Also, we were told that he hadn't donated any money to the church in a year and a half.
Apparently, if you work there you are supposed to give 10% of your salary back to the church. The guy did have a small child who was ill and had several surgeries, so that is probably why he couldn't donate. Now he won't have any money to pay for her medical bills or feed her. I always thought churches were supposed to be compassionate.
Five families walked out of that meeting and told the pastor to his face they were leaving and would never come back. Most of the other people in the room were also very angry about it.
Anyway, I guess nasty workplace drama happens even in churches. Yeah, people suck.
The bolded is the real reason they let them go.
That's why I'm not a fan of churches. Most of them operate as a Ponzi Scheme.
If I want to praise the lord, I'll do so at home with my own bible and my own two hands. I don't need to visit a church every Sunday and give back 10% of my paycheck to the pulpit so they can do whatever the hell they want with it.
In our church, one of the requirements of serving on the board or having a paid position is tithing. It's not a donation. It's giving back to the Lord. It's a tenent of our beliefs. If you don't agree, you don't take the position. You have the choice of not applying for a job with a Christian organization. How little respect can you have for God or the beliefs of the people/congregation of a given church if you take or even apply for a position with no intention of following their belief structure?
They gave him 18 months grace on tithing before letting him go for a breach of confidentiality. Seems pretty compassionate to me. People employed by a church should be fired if they breach confidentiality. And generally, when folks are employed by a church and let go, the church has a need to be open/transparent with their reasons.
Firing him doesn't mean they won't continue to help him with his child. Perhaps they will take the tithings of OTHERS and use it to pay for his COBRA. Who knows? Maybe they'll ask the congregation for 'love offerings'. Or maybe this guy disrespected the congregation for so long though that they will not be helping him out. Certainly those that walked out will be helping him - you aren't required to go through a church to donate funds to someone and help them out. Certainly those that disagree with his being let go will be assisting him - especially now that they're not giving the church 10% - they will all (5 families, you said, right) be helping him right? Let's say the average household income was $4k - that's $2000. More than enough (more than twice as much as needed) to pay for his COBRA costs and for her prescriptions. Plus the OP's 10%... the OP is certainly going to stand up for this man and his sick child and help them out, right? Because he's outraged. And then there are all those other angry people from the church...
I wonder if the person whose confidentiality he breached will contribute to the "feel sorry for the guy with the sick kid who didn't respect us or our beliefs" fund. Certainly those posters that feel the church is being hypocritical will send him money too.
This might actually be a good thing - if people put their money where their judgements... um, I mean MOUTH is.
Tithing is also supposed to be between you and God. I just find it ironic that he was fired for supposedly sharing confidential information, and yet the pastor has zero issues sharing confidential information. I would demand the pastor resign if it were up to me. It is the very least he can do. A music director is basically held to the moral standard of a school music teacher. The standard of conduct for a pastor should be much higher. But then it is a large church, and we all know the track record they have for morality and ethics.
American's still go to church? I thought the liberal media effectively established enough reasons for them to find other things to do on their Sundays. Seriously... We should do a poll asking how many "Christians" actually go to church... What's a church you ask??? Well, it's a large building of worship that... Never mind...
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