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I'd like to take an opportunity to share something. This is directly targeted at the Gen Y crowd as well as even the Boomers and some Gen X'ers. First, a PSA:
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The opinions stated within this post are those of Revelated and nobody else. They intended to share helpful details. You can choose to ignore the information; if you do so, simply click out of the thread. No hateful or derivative comments; they're a waste of time.
I have been working full time jobs since I graduated high school, in 1996. At the time, I was told directly by my father: "You've got a choice. You can go to college and I'll kick you out. Or, you can stay here, get a full-time job." Seeing my mother basically bow down to his demand, I had little choice in the matter. I was all signed up and everything to go to community college, towards what would probably have been some sort of computer degree.
So I started working. And working. And yes, I learned a lot. I got screwed a lot. In three different cases, probably eligible for lawsuits. But that's all in the past now. Truthfully, I got lucky with my second job, which was a pretty nice customer service position for the now-defunct @Home Network (Cox@Home, to be exact). I then went from customer service job to customer service job - this of course is before the big push to offshore those types of jobs. Later, at what ended up being my most rewarding position (but most frustrating career), I got a rare opportunity to move into Compliance. I learned more from that position than any other, even though it stressed me more than a 20-something year old should have been. When the company purchased an electronic content management (ECM) system, and I was essentially drafted due to the nature of my role to make sure the department had what it needed in the system, that moment was the change that I needed. I've been working in ECM ever since. That was 2004.
I'm just now enrolling in college, starting (hopefully) in August. I have technical certifications, that's it.
I want to address some things I commonly hear. And yes, I know some things are just down to opportunity and chance. But I'm a first-hand account of someone who took nothing and turned it into something. It's NOT easy. But it can be done if you're willing to (A) bust your tail and (B) take garbage from people you think little of.
"Everyone wants a college degree."
This is actually a fair statement. I've seen job posting after job posting requiring this. It's worse than it was 10, 20 years ago, when as long as you showed at least a little potential, you'd get a chance. 15 years ago even an Associates was ok, now an Associates is almost laughed at. I've seen basic entry level positions "preferring" a Bachelors degree. For what?
The problem is that they want to screen out people who know nothing at all and who may lie to get positions they're not otherwise qualified for; but those same companies are afraid to simply take a risk and deal with reference checks and all that. There's a logic there, but I really think some of the requirements for certain positions are plain silly. I know of no reason for a Bachelor's degree to do Customer Service. You're taking calls, reading from the screen and answering questions. A caveman could do it.
That said, the way to combat this is with flat out honesty and impression. Tell them openly you don't have a degree. But the experience you bring to the table far outweighs the value of a degree AND that once you find the right career (keyword: CAREER, not job), you're willing to go back to school to further your education. This is all about selling yourself as somebody who can get it done without help. My current position requires a degree, at least in writing; but the fact I know more about our core application than everyone in the building was valid reason for them to consider me over other applications who only had an IT degree but knew nothing about ECM.
"People will hire their friends/buddies instead of valid candidates."
Some do. It's those companies you should be avoiding. They'll find that the friends/buddies won't last long, either. Instead of complaining, just don't bother with an application.
"I've been out of work for too long."
A lot of companies are using this as an excuse not to hire someone because they think your skillset is outdated. Which in certain fields, like IT, is a valid observation. This one is hard to counter depending on the field, but the first thing you should do is ask yourself why you were out of work too long. If you can't think of a reason, or your reason doesn't even sound credible to you, you've got a problem. You may even need to consider some volunteer work, if for nothing else than to get some experience to fill the gap, or go back to school to supplement your knowledge.
If, however, you have a valid reason for it, give it to the company. But deliver it with confidence that you stopped working understanding fully what the negatives would be. For example, some expecting families will have the female stop working between the time she gives birth and the time the child is old enough to reasonably manage themselves; that's a long period of time especially if you aren't young when you have the child. But if you've been studying or doing things online, you can use this to supplement your application when you do go back to work. Just make sure the company understands that you made a very hard decision to look after your child. You may have to take something that isn't too desirable at first, but you can always switch later.
"They won't hire me because I'm Black/Mexican/Asian/Pinoy/Female"
The moment you set this in your mind, you've already defeated yourself. Now maybe you have proof. If so, file an EEOC complaint. But chances are you convinced yourself this was the reason because you felt you should have gotten the job.
It is true that when you don't fit in with "the crowd", you do have to work harder to make an impression, simply because of the unfortunate way of things. Some people don't expect females to want to work in construction or the military, so there's a bias there, for example. It means that when you go in for the interview, you need to work twice as hard to make sure you are able to get over those hurdles and allow them to evaluate you for the value you'd bring to the table. It's up to you to sell that; and so you must be ready and able to answer nearly any question an interviewer or manager might ask without sounding scripted. There are tons of resources on and offline that speak to this technique.
"The application is too long/asks for too much information."
And yes, I have done the interviewing, and it amazes me the lack of attention this gets.
"I get nervous when interviewing."
As well you should. It's a nerve wracking process that in some ways looks like an interrogation. But you should be prepared to be nervous, and as such, calmer than you would otherwise be. It's not a surprise, it's not unexpected (though the questions might be). You can't do anything about the process except to sell yourself. You might not be that impressive at all in terms of work or school experience, but if you can really sell yourself to the interviewer, you just might be given a chance even if at a lower salary level. Consider that if you weren't worth the company's time, you wouldn't have an interview in the first place. Use that statement to strengthen your confidence. And by all means, practice your interviewing techniques!
This is the #1 mistake I see people make, especially young adults. It screams desperation. I speak from experience; when I was a youngster I would do this: shoot out some bland document to a bunch of companies hoping for a response. What I learned is that in 9 out of 10 cases it would go directly into the trash because it wasn't personalized to the company, and they didn't feel I really wanted to work for them specifically; I just wanted a job. That was the truth of the matter, so they were not wrong to discard my communication.
First, find a job you REALLY want to work. Second, make sure you're at least somewhat qualified to work that job. I saw people apply for a tech position that hadn't even mastered the basics of Microsoft Outlook. Not going to fly. Third, and most important, when you do apply to the job, treat that application as though it's the most important thing in the world. It should speak directly to the company's need in a person. It should address what they say they are looking for without question. But it should also sell the fact that you can do the job, even if your credentials don't perfectly fit. In some companies, they also want to see a desire to learn and grow, and may even be willing to pay for it. Don't be afraid to welcome this.
"I do the interview but I don't get any calls back."
Before I address this one, let me say first: DO NOT let this upset you! The company may very well be making a mistake, but it's not the end of the world. Initially I had this combined with another topic but I realized it's completely different.
If the company doesn't respect you enough to give you a courtesy response letting you know that you didn't get the job, either they got a lot of applications and simply don't have the time or resource to give you an individual reply, or they may simply not do it. Consider it their loss and move on. It's not worth stressing over after a fashion. In my mind, you should hear something no more than two weeks after the interview. Otherwise move on. If they come back after that fact then you've got some leverage to ask for a higher salary or more accommodations if you find another company that's offering.
I get the postcard or email saying they went with someone else."
My current company flew me up to the area to interview with them after a telephone interview with the manager and the HR representative. I spent pretty much the whole day meeting with all of them, and despite the fact my direct, near-decade-long knowledge of the program they needed support for...despite me having references from employees of the company that wrote the program...despite me coming from a company that works to improve the program for companies just like this one...despite numerous examples of similar use cases where I'd made the program succeed...they bypassed me and went with another applicant who happened to have experience with their industry. In the email, the HR representative made it clear that if things were to change, or they needed someone else, that they would be in touch. I took this to mean that they debated whether to hire me - with application knowledge - or the other person with industry knowledge, and leaned towards the latter. Which was fine. But I was really interested to work with this company. I enjoyed the culture and meeting with the people.
So I kept in contact. I sent a monthly email to their HR just checking in on things and how the application was being handled.
One of these times, she emailed me back and indicated that the team wanted to bring me back in for another interview day. At this point, I figured something must have happened: either the team grew or they lost someone.
When I got there, they informed me that one of the other team members - one of the people I initially interviewed with - suddenly got an offer from his last company that he couldn't refuse, so they were now down a man. This time, they wanted to be sure my situation hadn't changed, but that they were basically going through the motions. Was handed an offer letter at the end of the day, which I accepted, as it was way higher than my asking price. That was the end of 2011.
The moral of the story: If you do get something from the company, that's better than no response at all. Read it. If it says "we found someone who more closely..." move on to another company. If they say something beyond that, something that makes you think that it was really down to the wire, don't be afraid to keep in touch if you really want the job. You never know what may have changed, and it's rare that a company will proactively reach out to someone who applied (even though they claim to "...keep your application on file for future opportunities").
"How can I really impress the interviewer/manager?"
First, don't give too much detail. Answer their questions as honestly as you can, but don't over give. Let's say you left a company due to a manager that was sexually harassing you. If asked, you might say that you began to feel uncomfortable in that position and wanted something that was more acceptable to you. That's not a lie, it's the truth; it's just not giving away specifics when they aren't necessary. As scary as it might be, divulging too much detail can harm your chances of getting the job. If you were to say "well, my manager started to make improper advances towards me, and I was a bit uncomfortable..." the interviewer/manager might mentally question what led to that situation. Were you dressed improperly? Did you reciprocate and are not saying so? Things that don't matter, but can be detrimental to your consideration for the position.
Second, learn about the company before you walk in there. This is a cardinal mistake people make. Take the time to do your research. Even if you have to go to the library to do it. It's 10 minutes out of your day. Learn the industry that they work in, what they do in the community, as much history as you can, everything. Why? Because if they happen to ask you questions about what you know of the company, you should be able to answer at least some of them with a straight face and confidence. If you shrug your shoulders at each question, they're going to assume you aren't really interested in them as much as "a job" and you go to the bottom of the pile.
Lastly, learn to sell yourself. You should be equipped to have an answer for everything, even if that answer is "honestly, I'm not sure". This isn't hard, but it does take time and practice. Your goal should be to make yourself seem as appealing as possible while not focusing on your weaknesses. If you're able to help them improve their profit margins, tell them so and then back it up with factual statements that will convince them. If you're able to improve the quality of the service that they give to customers, tell them so and then back it up with proven track records of quality. Whatever it is, learn to sell these points properly. There are tons of self-helps out there that are designed to improve your delivery in these matters.
"Anything else?"
One more thing. Master the art of "wordsmithing".
"Wordsmithing" (which is not a real word) is, in summary, the process of using "softer" terminology rather than what you'd normally say. Here's an example below.
We had an applicant where we asked a standard question: If we were to ask your co-workers what your strengths and weaknesses were, what they tell us about you?
The applicant gave pretty good strengths, but when he got to weaknesses he said, "well, I have a tendency to beat a dead horse."
Now, the people in the room may laugh, but they're not laughing WITH you, they're laughing AT you. They just won't say so. It's not a proper thing to say and it's an instant turn-off for interviewers when you say something like that even if they don't show it.
Now, contrast that response with this alternate version:
"well, in certain situations where I might be passionate about the topic, I do have a tendency to beleaguer the point. Not necessarily argumentative, but enough to stress my opinion if I feel strongly enough about it."
There, I said the same basic thing, but in a way that can only be appealing to any competent manager. It shows that you're willing to contribute to discussions and situations passionately, rather than passively, which is appealing. It also makes it sound like you've turned your disadvantage into an advantage, by accepting it as a weakness that you use to share your opinions. This is like candy. Master this art. It will go a long way for you.
There is no one magic bullet for everyone. But I've learned from years over that applying for jobs is really an art form. It's not as simple as sending a piece of paper and waiting for an offer letter. Now, you really have to learn to sell yourself so you stand out in the minds of those interviewing you. Even if you don't have the same credentials, you improve your chances drastically if you can master the art form - if you're WILLING to try to master the art form.
Speaking as a member of Gen X, I plan on waiting until I'm sixty or so before I start giving out advice that causes young people to roll their eyes behind my back.
Speaking as a member of Gen X, I plan on waiting until I'm sixty or so before I start giving out advice that causes young people to roll their eyes behind my back.
By the time we're sixty, nobody will care, because machines will be doing all of the work.
"They won't hire me because I'm Black/Mexican/Asian/Pinoy/Female"
Well, when an applicant walks into a retail store and sees 99% of everyone one demographic, and that demographic is not the applicant's, chances are they are not going to get the job.
"They won't hire me because I'm Black/Mexican/Asian/Pinoy/Female"
Well, when an applicant walks into a retail store and sees 99% of everyone one demographic, and that demographic is not the applicant's, chances are they are not going to get the job.
In 2001 I worked at Staples in San Diego. Anyone who knows how Staples operated in the late 90's may remember that diversity was never their strong suit. There wasn't a single minority in the place. All Caucasian. Still got hired. Worked the stock room.
The thing about retail is that they're generally not picky about who they hire; they'll just give you some sort of menial labor, but it's a job (and that's the problem with some people. They find menial labor beneath them...but if you're struggling to find work otherwise, you take what is offered, and work your way up). There used to be exceptions: Robinsons May, who rightfully closed their doors, had questionable hiring practices.
Now, if you're talking some mom-and-pop 99 cent store, then yes, it's a valid case. But then I would question why you're bothering there rather than a larger retailer where you'd have a higher chance of getting hired.
"They won't hire me because I'm Black/Mexican/Asian/Pinoy/Female"
Well, when an applicant walks into a retail store and sees 99% of everyone one demographic, and that demographic is not the applicant's, chances are they are not going to get the job.
A 5 year old can figure that out. 711 smuggled Pakistanis under fake ss numbers and immigration docs. You think they hired whites at the same time while they were doing that?
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