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Well California has some different priorities that int the long run weren't that bright (prop 13 for starters). I think it really said quite a bit when it wasn't until a few years ago that they paid anything in education to those serving in its national guard. In Mass you get four years paid at a public institution. It's been that way for well over a decade.
Getting back to the OP I know someone in worse shape. Let me call them J.
J graduate high school but I'm sure he didn't apply to college. J sometimes can be found hanging around convenience stores. He isn't a drunk or drug users he just hangs around them. J doesn't own a car or drive but this is the suburbs we are talking about. Sometimes he's found outside of those convenience stores with a muscle shirt on, scratching his privates and guzzling a huge soda. I have no clue how J pays bills or what he really goes home to.
I wouldn't say that majors make that much of a difference because frankly the records are open and so is the content.
I did my undergraduate and graduate degrees at two different UC campuses, late 70s - early '80s, and the quarterly tuition* went from $212 to $410. Today it works out to be just shy of $5000.
I was at a UC school in late 80's through early 90's and quarterly tuition for a full load started around $450 and had increased to $800 by the time I graduated.
Well California has some different priorities that int the long run weren't that bright (prop 13 for starters). I think it really said quite a bit when it wasn't until a few years ago that they paid anything in education to those serving in its national guard. In Mass you get four years paid at a public institution. It's been that way for well over a decade.
Getting back to the OP I know someone in worse shape. Let me call them J.
J graduate high school but I'm sure he didn't apply to college. J sometimes can be found hanging around convenience stores. He isn't a drunk or drug users he just hangs around them. J doesn't own a car or drive but this is the suburbs we are talking about. Sometimes he's found outside of those convenience stores with a muscle shirt on, scratching his privates and guzzling a huge soda. I have no clue how J pays bills or what he really goes home to.
I wouldn't say that majors make that much of a difference because frankly the records are open and so is the content.
J didn't run up debt though. He may be unproductive and lazy, but that's different than being buried in debt.
I'll post this again next time the issue comes up - One big disadvantage Americans have is that they must pay an arm and a leg for something their peers overseas can get cheaply. My supervisor here in an NYC investment bank paid peanuts for his university degree in Germany and I have colleagues from Spain, Netherlands, UK and Canada who experienced the same. Eventually these people enter the workforce not only better prepared but also with less financial burdens than Americans.
It's easy to blame politicians but recall that some things are cheaper in America than other countries - like single family homes, cars and gasoline. It all boils down to what the country's priorities are.
I'll post this again next time the issue comes up - One big disadvantage Americans have is that they must pay an arm and a leg for something their peers overseas can get cheaply. My supervisor here in an NYC investment bank paid peanuts for his university degree in Germany and I have colleagues from Spain, Netherlands, UK and Canada who experienced the same. Eventually these people enter the workforce not only better prepared but also with less financial burdens than Americans.
It's easy to blame politicians but recall that some things are cheaper in America than other countries - like single family homes, cars and gasoline. It all boils down to what the country's priorities are.
Some Canadian friends have complained to me about putting their kids through school and how much college tuition has gone up. When I asked what it was up to they said it was almost $6,400.
On the other hand, check out the price of cars and gas in some countries. Any additional money they'll have by graduating without debt, will go there.
Some Canadian friends have complained to me about putting their kids through school and how much college tuition has gone up. When I asked what it was up to they said it was almost $6,400.
$6,400 is peanuts compared to what it costs in the US. That is the tuition in McGill for non-QC Canadians, which is a steal for a university of its stature. U Alberta;s tuition is $4500 for law school. UBC's is $5,700 for engineering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1
On the other hand, check out the price of cars and gas in some countries. Any additional money they'll have by graduating without debt, will go there.
If they live in metropolitan areas like Frankfurt (or NYC, as some of them tend to do) then they won't need cars right away. My coworker from Madrid rode bikes to when she worked there and later, in London. Not saying that people abroad don't value cars but it's something they can put off until they are in better financial footing.
you definitely don't NEED cars in cities like Madrid or London. Just lived in Madrid for nine months, public transportation is very efficient and easy to use. Working professionals take the tube in London. To have a car in London means you're basically loaded the majority just take public transport. The metro routes in Madrid will take you anywhere outside the city for a monthly fee of sixty euro. Yes they absolutely pay peanuts for their undergraduate and graduate degrees. Europeans have a study abroad program called ERASMUS that they don't have to pay for either.The difference between my tuition and my German friends tuition for our graduate degrees is ridiculous and we'll end up making about the same once we've graduated. Le sigh.
It's apples and oranges. Europe has higher taxes as well. The US also has the best Universities in the world...it's no surprise that when I was at Cal, many of the grad students were from Europe and other countries. And yes, you pay for that.
When I was at Cal, I was an out-of-state resident so tuition was around $20k/year. In-state folks were paying about $6k/year and whenever the UC Regents would increase fees, there were student protests, etc. My friends would complain about how expensive it is and I would literally laugh in their faces saying that they are paying virtually nothing compared to our rivals across the bay at Stanfurd and other private schools. Even with my out-of-state tuition, I was paying a good $10k/year less so i wasn't complaining.
The reality these days is that the government made it much easier to borrow more and more money for school so the schools jacked up tuition. Hardly any people pay 100% of all of the tuition and room / board because almost everyone gets grants and scholarships. Of course most students (especially those in professional grad schools (law, med, business)) are also in $100k+ of debt when they graduate.
It's apples and oranges. Europe has higher taxes as well. The US also has the best Universities in the world...it's no surprise that when I was at Cal, many of the grad students were from Europe and other countries. And yes, you pay for that.
When I was at Cal, I was an out-of-state resident so tuition was around $20k/year. In-state folks were paying about $6k/year and whenever the UC Regents would increase fees, there were student protests, etc. My friends would complain about how expensive it is and I would literally laugh in their faces saying that they are paying virtually nothing compared to our rivals across the bay at Stanfurd and other private schools. Even with my out-of-state tuition, I was paying a good $10k/year less so i wasn't complaining.
The reality these days is that the government made it much easier to borrow more and more money for school so the schools jacked up tuition. Hardly any people pay 100% of all of the tuition and room / board because almost everyone gets grants and scholarships. Of course most students (especially those in professional grad schools (law, med, business)) are also in $100k+ of debt when they graduate.
Europe and Canada have higher taxes, but their people don't pay taxes until they start to earn income. Then how much they pay depends on how much they make. That's the operative consideration - they don't leave college in debt.
America may have better universities like Stanford on average. But do you really need to go to Stanford to be good enough to land a white collar job? My direct boss came from a 2nd tier German university and hardly anyone in my floor from the UK came from Oxford/Cambridge. I have American educated colleagues from Baruch and Binghamton. When my wife gave birth in Manhattan, the supporting physicians were from eastern Europe and Israel and the nurses from the Philippines.
In other countries, it is their national governments who take up a substantial share of funding for higher education. This makes it less likely for the budgets of specific universities and states/provinces to come under pressure. It also means people from all corners of these countries have better access to higher education as there is no "in-state" requirement.
But overall I agree that some things are more expensive to attain in other countries - like the latest consumer goods, houses, cars and gasoline. It all depends on what a country's priorities are.
Europe and Canada have higher taxes, but their people don't pay taxes until they start to earn income. Then how much they pay depends on how much they make. That's the operative consideration - they don't leave college in debt.
America may have better universities like Stanford on average. But do you really need to go to Stanford to be good enough to land a white collar job? My direct boss came from a 2nd tier German university and hardly anyone in my floor from the UK came from Oxford/Cambridge. I have American educated colleagues from Baruch and Binghamton. When my wife gave birth in Manhattan, the supporting physicians were from eastern Europe and Israel and the nurses from the Philippines.
In other countries, it is their national governments who take up a substantial share of funding for higher education. This makes it less likely for the budgets of specific universities and states/provinces to come under pressure. It also means people from all corners of these countries have better access to higher education as there is no "in-state" requirement.
But overall I agree that some things are more expensive to attain in other countries - like the latest consumer goods, houses, cars and gasoline. It all depends on what a country's priorities are.
I have met European foreign nationals working in the US. They talk about high unemployment and the lengthy process of finding a job there. Things are pretty bad here, too. There are people with $120k educations working at Dunkin Donuts.
However...
When you have to pay out higher taxes, that's less money for businesses and new jobs.
Are things better in Europe, if they can't find enough work there? They are fleeing to America to compete with locals with $120k educations at Dunkin Donuts.
Last edited by move4ward; 08-02-2014 at 07:27 AM..
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