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It is a tricky situation, the rule is usually: no matter how bad the current job is, do not quit until/unless you have another job lined up. However given your situation (yelling at employees for using the bathroom... really are we back in grade school?) I can understand leaving early.
Your boss is in sales, right? He's doing a sales job on you to get you to stay. It reflects badly on him that you are leaving.
You know what's best for you...not your boss or anyone else. If you want to re-evaluate your decision, you should disregard the non-factual statements your boss made about things like "running," and take all his promises and praise with a big grain of salt.
That's exactly what I thought. I remember when I walked in to give my notice 60 days into the job. We were visiting a customer, and it was the first time I had to "negotiate" with the customer to pay for an airfreight fee since they didn't order the parts on time. I never saw this kind of negotiation as an employee and wasn't prepped on possible questions to prepare for in advance. At that point, something came up in the negotiation that I didn't have an answer for. He didn't seem to be mad in the meeting and was all smiles in the room. When we got back in the car, he yelled at me in Japanese for not knowing the answer to the question. I couldn't believe how quick his personality changed. After that incident, I had a hard time believing him when he was nice. Here's the key to remember, there was one sales rep when I got there, he left 2 weeks in and I never got trained. I also got all of the important accounts, which I was happy to receive, but it would have been nice to have actual training or at least understanding for not knowing how to do things right away.
As for the "running" statement. I think he actually means that. I asked him once about relationships in Japan and he told me that divorce and breakups are rare because people see them as having been defeated. So, rather than give up, they "gaman" (persevere) in order to not give up. Likewise, I'm sure he feels that since I'm the first guy that he hired, it will look badly on him like you said. That I agree with 100%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastguyz
Thanks for sharing those details with us.
I don't believe in those things he is telling you and they are totally self-serving for your boss. The reason he doesn't want you to leave, is because it's hard to find employees who are willing to be yelled at and he knows it. He's trying to turn you into a slave there and if you stay will convince you that he holds the keys to your future in finding another job. He doesn't, you do!
I would simply thank him for his concern, but proceed directly to your plan to return to CA.
I also don't believe in his comment that you would be starting over like you had no accomplishments. This just isn't true. You have real work experience to show and talk about. Plus you have an excellent reason to be changing jobs because you want to move back to CA. Any employer in CA is going to understand that. That is usually the biggest concern people have in changing jobs, is how are they going to explain the reason for the change so it doesn't reflect negatively on themselves.
I know it seems like a gamble to spend $1K to go to an interview, but it's only money and money can be replaced with future earnings. I'm not a tax expert, but you might be able to take a tax deduction if you have and unreimbursable expenses for job seeking.
You mentioned this is a Japanese company. I understand that there can be a cultural difference in the management style and expectations of how employees should behave according to management wishes. But this is America, and American workers have learned quickly over the past couple of decades that you need to be proactive and responsible for your own career planning, and not leaving it up to the company. No reasonable employer in CA is going to question why you left that job if expression your desires to live in CA and be near family. Knowing people who live in CA, they think it's great there and think everyone wants to live there, so they are going to welcome you because you share that feeling.
I wish you success. Please don't allow your current boss and company to influence your actions that are acting in their own best interests, because they don't have your best interests at heart.
People with a Japanese background know it's part of the Japanese culture to get yelled at by a superior. The society is somewhat feudal in that sense (your slave comment is so on!). They don't switch companies (this is happening more, but it used to be extremely rare) and in turn will never be fired, unless it is an extreme circumstance. So, generally most people put up with it, then they get drunk with the boss, the boss tells them that they like them, but have to yell at them, then everybody goes back to work.
I agree with you that the accomplishments thing is untrue. I think he's looking at it from a Japanese perspective, which is fine, but we both know better. I talked to companies in the Bay Area and they understood completely saying that Northern California is too good to leave. I'm a native Californian and all someone had to do to appeal to me in an interview was say that it was too cold to live somewhere else and I wouldn't even question their reasoning, lol!
Thanks for your input. I did give his advice/suggestion some serious thought. Maybe if I was fresh out of college at 22 I would stick it out. But I'm about to be 31 and got a late start with graduating last year. I can't afford to waste time and it's only so long before I start to look my age at which point it might not be so easy to get a place to give me a shot at a brand new industry.
You should stay on your current job at least 1-2 years and gain some experience, but whatever.
You will need to get some backbone and persistence at some point and learn to deal with difficult situations and people or you will forever be listlessly shuffling through life job to job.
The managers wouldn't be on you if they didn't care for you. Only 4 months on the job is nothing........
Assuming that one is going to leave a job without another job lined up: Sticking out 1-2 years is ok i at the very I would stretch it is to 6 months but I would not go less than that. However 3- 5 years is to long.
Just be wary, the gap of unemployment usually last longer than the expected gap of unemployment.
You should stay on your current job at least 1-2 years and gain some experience, but whatever.
You will need to get some backbone and persistence at some point and learn to deal with difficult situations and people or you will forever be listlessly shuffling through life job to job.
The managers wouldn't be on you if they didn't care for you. Only 4 months on the job is nothing........
I talked to a recruiter last night in the tech industry and he said that anything over a year in a different business isn't going to help. He said that tech people want people with experience in tech. BTW, I never said I was 4 months in, I've been here for 6 months.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazeddude8
Assuming that one is going to leave a job without another job lined up: Sticking out 1-2 years is ok i at the very I would stretch it is to 6 months but I would not go less than that. However 3- 5 years is to long.
Just be wary, the gap of unemployment usually last longer than the expected gap of unemployment.
6 months is where I'm at now. I told my branch manager today that I thought his offer over, but no deal. He was silent all day long (it's an open office space and he sits about 5 feet away from me).
At the end of the day, he talked to me for what had to be about 3 hours. He asked if he did something wrong. I laid it all out there (problems with location, work-life balance, lack of interest in product that we sell, etc). I told him that in this business my future is anywhere, but California and that just doesn't appeal for me. He countered with the fact that he's Japanese and he's far from home. I told him that tech is totally different from any other business. They break and remake the rules. He thinks that getting experience even from outside sales, would put me at a better advantage than a guy fresh out of college. I told him that I spoke with a recruiter and they said that anything more than a year is pretty much a waste of time. He said that a year is good, but anything over that and while starting base might be higher, my tech experience would be low so I would still have start at the bottom career wise. He said the recruit doesn't know what he's talking about. I think the guy that places people in tech jobs for a living knows what the hell he's talking about, lol.
It was a constant back and forth, then he said the following: Look, the president of our North America division sees you as a future leader of this company. He told me to look after you and to make sure you learn everything. So that's why I was so strict with you. Looking back, maybe I was too harsh, but that's the reason. What I really like about you is that you remind me of me. You study every aspect of a problem before you come to ask me a question or get my approval for an approach. You even took the same amount of time I took before I tried to quit in Japan. That's why I'm telling you to stick it out like I did after my boss told me to give it another 6 months. With the right kind of nurturing you'll eventually make it into management. I know you want more money and for you that will come unlike the other guys that work here. They just make excuses while you go out and get results in your negotiations. Why don't you think about it till Monday? At the very least, I think you should stick it out for another 6 months. Personally, I think 3 years would be best, but it's your decision.
Since he basically wouldn't give up, I told him I would consider it again, but I have no desire to. I can believe what he said about the president because in our interview when I first got hired, he hinted at that. On the other hand, while I understand Japanese people, I am not Japanese and this is not Japan. I realize that I should be grateful that I'm even in this position, but my home and the ocean are calling me.
I realize I may be panicking so if anyone sees this as me not seeing the long term, please chime in.
As miserable as your current job is, I would stick with it whilst actively looking for better work. Reason being is you never know how long the unemployment gap may last. You may have savings for 3 months but what happens if it takes you 6 months to land the next job ?
It is nice that you are taking the horrible advice of a recruiter. Recruiters are crap. Take the advice from people with real experience.
Good luck with things. There is nothing shabby about working in the automotive world in fact people will always need cars.
Technology? This is a field where there is more and more outsourcing and globalization, so expect to replaced by someone in India making $2.19 an hour at some point.
Look, the president of our North America division sees you as a future leader of this company. He told me to look after you and to make sure you learn everything. So that's why I was so strict with you. Looking back, maybe I was too harsh, but that's the reason.
If you believe that, I've got a marina in the Sahara desert I want to sell you. Your boss is thinking about his own good, not yours. Your leaving is probably going to create problems for him: he will be short-handed, and his boss(es) are going to come down on him. He has absolutely no interest in your future, only in his.
True story: when I was younger and working for a Fortune 10 company, I left everything to go overseas and live among desert nomads, because that was what I wanted to do. Lots of people tried to dissuade me, running the gamut from begging me to threatening me. I left anyway. The following 4-5 years were the best of my life (so far), and I have never regretted it even one nanosecond.
Do what YOU want to do, after having gathered sufficient information and weighed the consequences. Never let others' opinions sway you one way or the other.
As miserable as your current job is, I would stick with it whilst actively looking for better work. Reason being is you never know how long the unemployment gap may last. You may have savings for 3 months but what happens if it takes you 6 months to land the next job ?
True, I've thought of trying to save 6 months worth of expenses then get out. Some have even advised a year, but I think that is a little extreme.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suncc49
It is nice that you are taking the horrible advice of a recruiter. Recruiters are crap. Take the advice from people with real experience.
Good luck with things. There is nothing shabby about working in the automotive world in fact people will always need cars.
Technology? This is a field where there is more and more outsourcing and globalization, so expect to replaced by someone in India making $2.19 an hour at some point.
A recruiter is who got me this job. My problem with automotive is that all roads lead to Detroit, Ohio, Tennessee, Kentucky, or Texas. At some point, I would like to move back to my home state. Here is a nice detour, but I don't want to be here forever. You sound like my boss though, he told me the same thing about being in automotive.
Exactly how do you outsource a sales job in tech? You have to actually demonstrate the product in person for many of these jobs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzd
Look, the president of our North America division sees you as a future leader of this company. He told me to look after you and to make sure you learn everything. So that's why I was so strict with you. Looking back, maybe I was too harsh, but that's the reason.
If you believe that, I've got a marina in the Sahara desert I want to sell you. Your boss is thinking about his own good, not yours. Your leaving is probably going to create problems for him: he will be short-handed, and his boss(es) are going to come down on him. He has absolutely no interest in your future, only in his.
True story: when I was younger and working for a Fortune 10 company, I left everything to go overseas and live among desert nomads, because that was what I wanted to do. Lots of people tried to dissuade me, running the gamut from begging me to threatening me. I left anyway. The following 4-5 years were the best of my life (so far), and I have never regretted it even one nanosecond.
Do what YOU want to do, after having gathered sufficient information and weighed the consequences. Never let others' opinions sway you one way or the other.
I only believe the stuff about the president because after I got hired, the president came down to have a 1-on-1 with me. In the interview he mentioned having non-Japanese nationals being trained to run North America and making the Japanese nationals go home. He told me to carefully study everything and support my manager the best I can. This is pretty much what my manager said so I think it's the truth. It's really hard to find a Japanese bilingual that's located in the south with citizenship status.
Yeah, I know what I want to do, but I also know what I am not willing to pay in terms of cost in order to get there (depending financially on others). So the gamble is in whether I can find the work in 2 months time or stay for the longer haul to have a larger cash reserve. I don't have family to go back home to, so that makes things harder.
I have no job lined up, but my boss insists on keeping me for at least a year. I finally aired out my real grievances with the company, mainly, HIM. I put it all out there. Knowing his short temper, I was hoping that he would be so pissed that he wouldn't want me to stay. To my surprise, he started talking all this stuff about sales manager promotion in the future, raise (but don't count on it being what I could be making in the tech sector, hell our CEO in Japan doesn't even make that!), how bad it will look to just leave after 6 months, blah, blah, blah. He also claimed that he had no idea this was an issue, apologized (even bowed), and promised not to do it again.
I am ignoring his promise of being promoted because I have decided on absolutely NOT staying with the company or even the industry. He claims that he did this exact thing in Japan years ago and decided to give it another 6 months at which point he actually tried to quit again, but his boss told him to give it another 6 months. At that point, he changed and actually liked the job so he was very content and stayed on with the company. He claims that it would be in my best interest career wise to at least stay for 3 years.
He also claims that at the least I should stick it out for a year.
I also agree that it may be in my interest to stick it out for a year, but not for the same reasons as he thinks. Here are the reasons:
1. The longest I ever stayed at a job was 18 months. Lots of it had to do with me going to school, family illness, and moving for school. None of this matters if I can't explain myself to the person hiring in the next role. Since I graduated in 2013, I can always tailor my resume to just the things I did in college and beyond. However, if I leave now, would I look like a job hopper (6 months into the job I quit)? Would it be better to stick out the year and then leave citing that I was looking to change industries?
2. While I am doing my best to rectify things, the job has taken a toll on my mental and physical health. After 5 months, I finally made it a point to change my diet and exercise again. I lost 4 lbs in the last week alone and feel much better overall mood wise. Before coming here, I had one gray hair. I now have 3 or 4 and wonder how many more will come with the overall stress of the job (kind of too young to be going gray). None of my parents had any gray hairs before they passed.
3. Right now, I have about 2-3 months of expenses to make a move. I have no offer in hand, but I am looking. I also will be able to say that I trained some new guy (they're bringing in a 3rd man finally) to do the position 6 months into the job and a full year of senior sales rep experience straight out of college (I was "promoted" 2 weeks in when the old rep quit). How much of this will matter if I switch industries?
I am leaning towards staying if only to get more cash. If I stay, I should have a decent bonus. If the bonus turned out to be lower than the minimum they told me it would be, I will quit on the spot. Also, my income tax return will help me build my reserves as well. In my mind, if they fire me, I'd be getting unemployment anyway and will just leave as planned as the place I'm headed is open anytime.
On the other hand, the phrase carpe diem goes through my mind. The time to strike when making a decision is now and I should just move on. The more time I spend in this industry (automotive), the longer it will take for me to move to the next, which while insignificant in the long run is still 6 months longer than today (tech). All the other things above were factors in my mind well before I ever walked in to give my notice (well not the promotion stuff, but money, stress, etc).
Any and all advice would be appreciated.
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Update: Boss has made a counteroffer
