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I guess you didn't read through the topic. I said in a few places that I wouldn't work for a place like that. I never even had a place ask me to cut amything. The point of this topic was to have a discussion about these types of jobs.
It's just strange to me that their preference involves controlling other people. Why would you care if someone has facial hair or not? You're not dating them.
Suppose you own a company and the #1 thing which separates you from the rest is the appearance of yourself as well as that of your employees namely, pure professionalism in appearance as well as actions/results. Facial hair is limited to a slight mustache, no visible piercings or scars from such,no visible tats allowed and casual wear is prohibited. You compensate your employees well enough to afford to dress so.Employees were tested to be well spoken, bright and articulate in multiple interviews to find those who fit your team.
This has been your multi-million dollar venture for 20 years; your baby. You built it from the ground up and have done most every job needed to run the company. You pride yourself in the fact you are the first most others call to solve XYZ problems on a weekly basis.
What if those who are now applying for a position in your company are 180 degrees from what you hold as a standard for your employees? Do you bend the rules to hire blue Mohawk dude with gauges in his ears and eyebrow piercings to match his neck tattoo? What will the rest of your team think? If you have been successful to this point, Mohawk dude goes to 7-11 and works night shifts with no questions asked.
This is a company my bro-in-law works for and they have stuck to the original business model for years.
What's with these? I can't believe they're still around, and I'm not talking about the ones that make sense, like food service.
Personally, I can't believe people are still starting threads with variations of this question.
I mean seriously... Who wants to walk into a law firm and find out some tat-covered Jesus lookalike biker wannabe is going to be representing their case in court.
People are judged every day on all kinds of criteria including the clothes they wear, their physical appearance, the manner in which they speak, the address they choose to live, their chosen profession, the music they listen to, the books and papers they read, the kind of car they drive and their general body language. As such, there are certain professions that place guidelines on some of these traits to ensure potential clients have less by which to judge their employees by. If you work as a tradesman or in the manufacturing or transportation industries, your appearance probably doesn't matter as much. However, if you practice law, medicine, politics or are employed in the financial industry, it makes a big difference. Who's going to invest their life savings with someone who looks like a prison lifer?
Of course, if you are not planning to ever work in any of these industries I really don't see why these standards should concern you at all. However, if you are planning to seek employment in one of them, you best learn to change your attitude about how the game is played rather quickly if you have any hope at all of ever being successful.
Some organizations care about how their people dress because they have clients or customers who expect a certain degree of professionalism. When I worked in a clinic providing psychotherapy services to clients, there was a dress code. Facial hair needed to be neatly groomed, and dress in the office was for everyone to be business casual, which meant no jeans, no open-toed shoes.
I went to court periodically to present evidence that court-ordered clients were complying with their treatment, and I was amazed at the sloppy appearance of many of the young people whose future (prison or not) depended on the judge they were standing before. Or for that matter, the young therapists from other agencies, who were dressed inappropriately for court. There's a general coarsening of behavior in our culture, and it's not going to do us any good in the long run.
If I went to a new doctor and found he had a scraggly beard, piercings, and a neck tattoo, and his first word to me was "Yo", I'd be out of the office immediately looking for someone else. It's called professionalism. If I went to an auto mechanic, my expectations would be different. Same with computer programmers and IT professionals; it's a different set of standards in that industry.
That's the second time I believe you've used the word "controlling" ... and I think that's your real issue. You apparently work in a field where you can present whatever appearance you desire. Good for you. But I get the feeling what you really want is a society where employers in general don't "control" their employees' appearances or behavior at work (or you're just looking to stir up some controversy). That's not surprising, since you're still young. But part of growing older is realizing the rules you encounter in the world are not of your choosing and there's not a d-mn thing you can do about it. Come back to us when you're sixty and let us know if you still see the world the same way.
Suppose you own a company and the #1 thing which separates you from the rest is the appearance of yourself as well as that of your employees namely, pure professionalism in appearance as well as actions/results. Facial hair is limited to a slight mustache, no visible piercings or scars from such,no visible tats allowed and casual wear is prohibited. You compensate your employees well enough to afford to dress so.Employees were tested to be well spoken, bright and articulate in multiple interviews to find those who fit your team.
This has been your multi-million dollar venture for 20 years; your baby. You built it from the ground up and have done most every job needed to run the company. You pride yourself in the fact you are the first most others call to solve XYZ problems on a weekly basis.
What if those who are now applying for a position in your company are 180 degrees from what you hold as a standard for your employees? Do you bend the rules to hire blue Mohawk dude with gauges in his ears and eyebrow piercings to match his neck tattoo? What will the rest of your team think? If you have been successful to this point, Mohawk dude goes to 7-11 and works night shifts with no questions asked.
This is a company my bro-in-law works for and they have stuck to the original business model for years.
However you try to cut that though, you're still generalizing. You have a right to hire who you want to hire, but it is what it is. Blue Mohawk guy could be the best employee you've ever had. And I'd expect someone to have a problem with it if you "bent" the rules instead of saying, "You know what, as long as you're well-kept and clean, you can grow facial hair. We're changing the policy."
I do understand some of these policies have to do with the biases of others and not necessarily the enforcers.
I guess you didn't read through the topic. I said in a few places that I wouldn't work for a place like that. I never even had a place ask me to cut amything. The point of this topic was to have a discussion about these types of jobs.
It's just strange to me that their preference involves controlling other people. Why would you care if someone has facial hair or not? You're not dating them.
"You" was used in the general sense.. Not you personally. I could very easily say that you ( again used in the general) are attempting to " control" other's by wanting them to subscribe to what you want. No?
They might not be dating the employee, but the employee is representing them and perhaps the employer doesn't feel that long hair and facial hair are the image that they want to project.. No matter what the employee thinks.
What right does an employee have to dictate or even question the employer's reasons? Whether you ( again used in the general sense) agree with it or not. Again just as people have the right to grow their hair long and or have facial hair an employer has the right to not hire them. Same, same. I suppose you can't see that because .. It doesn't fit your agenda of how you wish it to be.
Last edited by Sydney123; 05-23-2015 at 04:28 PM..
If I went to a new doctor and found he had a scraggly beard, piercings, and a neck tattoo, and his first word to me was "Yo", I'd be out of the office immediately looking for someone else. It's called professionalism. If I went to an auto mechanic, my expectations would be different. Same with computer programmers and IT professionals; it's a different set of standards in that industry.
I would prefer your "Yo" doctor to a clean shaven, no tats doctor with an accent so thick that I can't understand them. That's really my first requirement of doing business with someone - I have to be able to communicate well with them, be it spoken or written.
I hope you are never in charge of hiring geek engineers who sit in vaults all day because that is who you will see. It isn't all Sheldon and Leonard in the land of intelligent people. You pay those people good money for what they can do for you RIGHT NOW and are damned glad to have them. I'm taking about people who can barely meet eyes with you. They are thinking all the time and can pinpoint problems before you know they exist. I loved those guys. You get to dress in any fashion you want in those positions but are required to dress up a bit if interfacing with the public, which is rare. You can wear pajamas when working 12 hour shifts during the weekend.
Well if I ever have to start hiring engineers than I will consider your advice, as it is I hire very smart accountants, and work with some very smart lawyers and financial advisers, where appearance matters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1alker
Companies are getting more lenient with this, especially as the older generations retire and die out. I work for a retailer that just did away with the requirement of wearing shirts and ties in management.
Actually I have spoken to many business people in several different professions, and from what they are telling me they are actually going the opposite way. You see those of us in generation X were the ones pushing the casual dress and relaxed standards, now many of us are seeing where that leads. You have to have standards and in many professions those standards should match across the board.
"You" was used in the general sense.. Not you personally. I could very easily say that you ( again used in the general) are attempting to " control" other's by wanting them to subscribe to what you want. No?
They might not be dating the employee, but the employee is representing them and perhaps the employer doesn't feel that long hair and facial hair are the image that they want to project.. No matter what the employee thinks.
What right does an employee have to dictate or even question the employer's reasons? Whether you ( again used in the general sense) agree with it or not. Again just as people have the right to grow their hair long and or have facial hair an employer has the right to not hire them. Same, same. I suppose you can't see that because .. It doesn't fit your agenda of how you wish it to be.
Alright. I took that as a comment addressing me, because 90% of the time, people come in here to talk about problems they're having. So, it would be understandable if it was directed towards me.
Yeah, everyone has the right to have it their way. I'm just saying it's strange in certain areas of employment.
You're saying my desire for lack of control would be controlling their desire to control. Point taken.
People should be free to express themselves. What does having long/short hair have to do with one completing their job?
A lot of employers want their employees to express the principles and standards of the company, not themselves. Part of the job is presenting the standards of the company, and an employee whose appearance conflicts with the standards of the company is not doing the job.
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