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I had been a manager in several different jobs prior to being hired into my current position, including owning a couple businesses of my own. I knew the "hands on" for 2 of the divisions I now oversee, but basically nothing about the 3rd.
What that meant to me was I needed to learn it. The laws, the practical application, how to work the systems, and not just because I needed to be able to do the job if necessary, but so I could train new people into those positions as well as be able to understand the workflow to make determinations about allocation of assets and if the workload was overwhelming the employees on the line. I also now know when they are slacking because I know what they do, how they do it and what the expectations should be.
Yeah, I have the skillset of a manager, and the duties that they will never understand, but to my mind part of the responsibility of managing people is knowing their job so I can make realistic projections of production and needs of the unit.
I am a supervisor, and I do not know how to do most of my direct report's jobs. I can do some aspects of some of their jobs, but I don't have the technical expertise, experience, or knowledge of specific procedures to actually do the jobs. With that being said, I know what they do, and what is necessary to help them gat the job done.
I don't need to though. They do a variety of different things, and I hired them because they know how to do their jobs.
Let's look at this a different way. Do you think that the president of a hospital knows how to do everybody's job? Can s/he do brain surgery, liver surgery, deliver babies, run the boiler plant, create billings, prepare financial statements, and cook bland but nutritious meals for hundreds?
No, nor would we expect anybody to do so. That is why we have people report up the hierarchy. The expectation that a supervisor can do the jobs of those under him/her is ridiculous.
I'm not saying the CEO needs to know how to do every job...or even an AVP. But a first-line manager should have much more intimate knowledge of what their team does. First line managers don't get to be completely hands off and "fly at 10,000 feet". They DO have to get their hands a little dirty and if they aren't capable of that there will be problems. BIG difference between a manager and a CEO...and they should not forget it.
E6s and E7s were once E1s, E2s, and E3s. They KNEW the job, so they could understand us better than the O6 who had no clue lol.
Boy, was I shocked when I entered civilian life and found out that middle management were just as clueless as those at the top.
I have never been in the military, but I think you need to keep in mind the fact that the military is much larger than even the biggest private corporation. That changes the rules a bit.
I am not sure that everybody in the military knows all of their reports jobs either. Does a base commander know how to do his secretaries job? Does the officer in charge of the motor pool know how to rebuild a Diesel engine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63
I'm not saying the CEO needs to know how to do every job...or even an AVP. But a first-line manager should have much more intimate knowledge of what their team does. First line managers don't get to be completely hands off and "fly at 10,000 feet". They DO have to get their hands a little dirty and if they aren't capable of that there will be problems. BIG difference between a manager and a CEO...and they should not forget it.
Great, but you are now qualifying the OP. It didn't specify whether the manager was an executive or a frontline manager. I will agree with you that frontline managers should know most of what their subordinates do. In my particular case, I have technical specialists and frontline managers report to me. it would take me decades to gain the technical credentials of all the people who report to me, and many more years to learn all of the administrative duties they deal with. By the time I amassed the schooling necessary to match their minimum qualifications, technological advances would have rendered much of that knowledge obsolete.
I have never been in the military, but I think you need to keep in mind the fact that the military is much larger than even the biggest private corporation. That changes the rules a bit.
I am not sure that everybody in the military knows all of their reports jobs either. Does a base commander know how to do his secretaries job? Does the officer in charge of the motor pool know how to rebuild a Diesel engine?
I did not say in my post that everybody in the military knew all of their report's jobs.
There is a difference between officers and enlisted, which is why I used the terms E6, E7, and O6 in my post. No, the O6 does not know anything about the enlisted member's jobs. Honestly, I was clear in my post about this.
I said E6s and E7s were once E1s, E2s, or E3s. I did not say anything about officers.
The expectation that a supervisor can do the jobs of those under him/her is ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mochamajesty
I did not say in my post that everybody in the military knew all of their report's jobs.
There is a difference between officers and enlisted, which is why I used the terms E6, E7, and O6 in my post. No, the O6 does not know anything about the enlisted member's jobs. Honestly, I was clear in my post about this.
I said E6s and E7s were once E1s, E2s, or E3s. I did not say anything about officers.
You were clear in your distinction between enlisted and officer ranks, but at the same time you quoted me:
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
The expectation that a supervisor can do the jobs of those under him/her is ridiculous.
and said that the military had spoiled you. The implication being that in the military, the expectation was that supervisors could do their reports jobs.
If you want to clarify that and say that for the enlisted ranks this is true, that's fine. The end result is the same though. Some managers are not expected to know how to do their subordinates jobs. If that were to be the expectation, no human organization, whether company, military or government, could grow much beyond 6-7 people in size. Sooner or later we specialize our skills, which enables us to do more than complete cross training would allow.
Some parts, but not really the time to do them. I'd say about 30%, she knows other parts of it, but not how to access the sites. When I am out, I know I am coming back to a desk full of work, don't really mind. I love being busy and I like that most of what I do, I am the only one who knows how to do it.
At my current job, my direct manager/supervisor doesn't know how to do my job. He of course knows what I do and some of what I do. Great guy... don't get me wrong. Very fair, etc. So, it has nothing to do w/ him. Of course, since he is a manager - I know he has a lot going on.
However, my previous jobs - my direct manager/supervisor did know how to do my job. If I needed a day off, etc - they could cover and do all the details of my job. So, this is newer to me!
I was just curious - if you were unable to make it in, would your supervisor know how to do your daily tasks? Or, if you are a supervisor do you know how to do your employee tasks?
Nope, he can't. But my coworkers can, if they have bandwidth. Sort of. It'd take them a while to get ramped up on the project I'm working on.
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