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I'm an IT professional, and like many other IT professionals, I'm frustrated. Today, one colleague who doesn't follow the change request process we have now, suggested that we need one, because his project that took him four weeks, was wasted because it was not used. His project took him less than an hour...
So what does another colleague say? He is going to take on making a process (which we already have). Why does he say this? Because he has nothing else to do. Meanwhile I'm writing code, managing web and database servers, and doing a thousand other tasks.
So a bunch of BS artists make up BS work, and milk it, while I'm stuck doing all the heavy lifting, and I'm the most senior person on the team. It's no wonder IT jobs are four of the top 10 worst jobs out there.
I feel like I either 1) need to switch to a different function or 2) change careers. I feel like I need to get away from this nonsense. But switch to what? I've considered HR, but going from 154K a year to 60K a year entry level HR is going to hurt. Not because I am a big spender, I'm not, but because of the huge hit to my savings rate. I would do it if I had more money, as in worked a few years more, but right now?
Plus then there's the fear that there is more BS in another job, another company, another career. I'm one year from finishing my MBA, and have a few rentals, but damn, although I'm sick of this nonsense, I feel like it's too early to retire and any job is going to have BS.
To top it all off, I have 5 Project Managers copied on every email for a bug, and I'm the only technical resource on the project. FIVE Project Managers, none of whom have any actual involvement AT ALL....one Developer.
Sad thing is, this is how most shops seem to operate these days. I've seen this far too many times. No wonder IT workers are the unhappiest workers and the biggest segment of the "early retirement" movement.
WOW. I work in IT (Change Management, specifically) and I'm facing the same issue.
I left my previous job as a Change Manager for an airline because the workload was ridiculous and my boss was horrible. He was very unsupportive, undermining, antisocial (he didn't like to talk to his direct reports and went out of his way to avoid them) yet every blue moon he would decide to micromanage some aspect of the process. What made him dangerous was the fact that anyone who didn't report to him generally had a favorable opinion of him, because he put on a "show" very well. So I left that job for a similar role with a different company to encounter the exact.same.behavior. No one is held accountable, my boss exhibits the same behavior as my previous boss, and it's pure chaos. People don't communicate, and when they do, they are rude, and no one seems to get in trouble. Lastly, everyone is too busy worried about other people's process areas. The whole scenario is a disaster.
I've been thinking a lot about this whole situation, and wondering if it's just me. Maybe this is just the way it is everywhere, and I need to get over looking for the "right" job with a "reasonable" boss?
WOW. I work in IT (Change Management, specifically) and I'm facing the same issue.
I left my previous job as a Change Manager for an airline because the workload was ridiculous and my boss was horrible. He was very unsupportive, undermining, antisocial (he didn't like to talk to his direct reports and went out of his way to avoid them) yet every blue moon he would decide to micromanage some aspect of the process. What made him dangerous was the fact that anyone who didn't report to him generally had a favorable opinion of him, because he put on a "show" very well. So I left that job for a similar role with a different company to encounter the exact.same.behavior. No one is held accountable, my boss exhibits the same behavior as my previous boss, and it's pure chaos. People don't communicate, and when they do, they are rude, and no one seems to get in trouble. Lastly, everyone is too busy worried about other people's process areas. The whole scenario is a disaster.
I've been thinking a lot about this whole situation, and wondering if it's just me. Maybe this is just the way it is everywhere, and I need to get over looking for the "right" job with a "reasonable" boss?
Yeah, most places I worked where like this. Rarely was it different, but if it was, it was usually due to a good boss. But inevitably things changed, mergers caused shuffles and you end up reporting to someone else.
Looking at the reviews on glassdoor.com it seems like it is like this at most places. I've wondered if getting back into management would be the solution, but I had the same issues when I was management because I still had a manager or VP I reported to.
I've also wondered if I shouldn't take some low stress Support Director job. Judged on very simple metrics and with less BS. Right now I work on a team of multiple contractors working on the same team but for different companies, and although I'm the most senior person on the team position wise I can't task anyone really because they don't really work for me.
Funny thing is, when I was management, I made most of the decisions, but I was making a fraction of what I'm making now, so I guess I could take a pay cut, but will I deal with BS somewhere else still, even in a management position? I know the management positions I held before were is super high turnover positions, there was such high turn over it was ridiculous. These were high level people with six figure salaries turning over. So maybe that management gig sucked and there's a better one out there.
One thing is for certain: I have realized IT work SUCKS. High pay, but tons of BS. The most skilled person will always end up working for the least skilled people, the ones with the high BS ability but little actual substance. What's worse, when they ignore what you say and it ends up happening, you're the one stuck fixing it after hours, not them....
Surely HR has to be better. I see I can get a Recruiting Manager job with a lot of companies EVENTUALLY making the same pay I do now, doing much simpler things, not having to deal with low skilled admin assistants who are promoted to Project Managers over enterprise software projects because they are cute or sleeping with someone...
It really kills our soul to know there are five admin assistants who were promoted to PM copied on every communication for your project but they don't actually do anything, but you are stuck doing all the heavy lifting and the actual work, while they just relax or make up stuff to do.
I will say I work from home and have higher pay than most places offer so there's that, but the BS is getting old. To some extent changing jobs every couple years has helped refresh my soul? Inevitably there is BS elsewhere but when it arises changing jobs seems to be the solution. I know another colleague who agreed that the corporate BS is inevitable and just sticks it out for a couple years until he can't take it anymore then changes jobs and repeats the cycle.
It really kills our soul to know there are five admin assistants who were promoted to PM copied on every communication for your project but they don't actually do anything, but you are stuck doing all the heavy lifting and the actual work, while they just relax or make up stuff to do.
You know the company is too middle heavy when they have too many paper pushers and not enough workers. Of course most companies solution is to outsource the IT work. Don't worry, when a recession happens again the PM jobs will be cut and those folks will become jobless.
I know a buddy with 25 yrs or IT experience tells me if you want longevity and enjoy the work don't become a PM. It's the career killer job, unless you are really a good PM. Anybody who got promoted to PM and are just those email tag PM will have their day and will become expendable during job cuts.
The last recession I saw many IT people get let go and some of those folks haven't recovered fully from it.
For $154k, I'd be willing to put up with a lot of the politics and BS.
With that said, I've worked in IT roles within seven different programs and six different organizations, and if you want away from it all, I think you need to change careers. Some shops are more tolerable than others, but there are a lot of IT-specific issues that are going to manifest virtually anywhere.
For $154k, I'd be willing to put up with a lot of the politics and BS.
With that said, I've worked in IT roles within seven different programs and six different organizations, and if you want away from it all, I think you need to change careers. Some shops are more tolerable than others, but there are a lot of IT-specific issues that are going to manifest virtually anywhere.
But what you will most likely find is that almost every one in every profession feels like you do in IT
Not every place in IT is a disaster. After a while, you learn what questions to ask during your interview of the hiring manager. That's right, YOU need to interview the hiring manager as if you were hiring him or her. Ask how they do things, how things are staffed. Give an example of a situation and ask the hiring manager how they would be handled and who handles it.
The problem is, by the time you want to leave an existing job or you are unemployed you don't think to ask these questions unless you have been through some bad situations in the past.
Yes, it can be better at other places, but you have to do your homework to ask what is most important to you. You also need to look and ask around. Check out glassdoor, and make contact with people through linkedin and places like that, that already work there.
I work in IT and software development. And I can tell you, in large companies they allow too much of the staff to be involved in managing and creating an infrastructure for the purposes of a better workflow. Which all sounds good, but it leaves few people to work on the company's actual real business. And when those people get other jobs, someone new comes in and reboots the whole thing.
For $154k, I'd be willing to put up with a lot of the politics and BS.
With that said, I've worked in IT roles within seven different programs and six different organizations, and if you want away from it all, I think you need to change careers. Some shops are more tolerable than others, but there are a lot of IT-specific issues that are going to manifest virtually anywhere.
If you were making $75K a year, $154K a year sounds like a Utopia. But after you've been in the role for a while and are unhappy, that money doesn't seem like it would solve all the problems like you expected it to. If you were going from $75K to $154K and the only difference was the commute was now one hour instead of 15 minutes, then you can feel better about it provided the job is good.
It is just human nature. A friend of mine was on a contract and with overtime (which was paid at time and a half) he said he make over $200K that year. The permanent job (no paid overtime) he had before that paid $120K a year. But now he can't wait to find a permanent job which would be a lower salary just to have a better work/life balance. I asked him, "How are you going to feel about making $80K less a year?". He said the extra $80K wasn't worth it to him.
I know there must be unemployed people reading this, or those who make far less than $75K a year thinking the guy was one lucky person and should have continued working at $200K a year. But you weren't in his shoes having almost no free time or vacations to speak of. Money doesn't fix everything.
But what you will most likely find is that almost every one in every profession feels like you do in IT
This is what worries me. Although I will say it seems Recruiting is a reasonably safe bet. Yes, they are first to get laid off when a hiring freeze occurs, but I'm already well off, I wouldn't care if I was laid off every few years or so. I'd just be riding the train until I decide I'm ready to retire early. No nights and weekends, easy job getting and posting job descriptions, interviewing/screening, negotiate offers. Easy peasy. I've done this type of work as a manager before. Gravy. Yes, eventually all the unqualified people who pad their resume will get on my nerves, but that's not near as bad as what I'm dealing with now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastguyz
Not every place in IT is a disaster. After a while, you learn what questions to ask during your interview of the hiring manager. That's right, YOU need to interview the hiring manager as if you were hiring him or her. Ask how they do things, how things are staffed. Give an example of a situation and ask the hiring manager how they would be handled and who handles it.
The problem is, by the time you want to leave an existing job or you are unemployed you don't think to ask these questions unless you have been through some bad situations in the past.
Yes, it can be better at other places, but you have to do your homework to ask what is most important to you. You also need to look and ask around. Check out glassdoor, and make contact with people through linkedin and places like that, that already work there.
I work in IT and software development. And I can tell you, in large companies they allow too much of the staff to be involved in managing and creating an infrastructure for the purposes of a better workflow. Which all sounds good, but it leaves few people to work on the company's actual real business. And when those people get other jobs, someone new comes in and reboots the whole thing.
I've gotten better at job hunting. I've turned down more than half a dozen six figure offers, FTE, gov, contract, you name it, I had an offer. Management, technical, both types of positions. In each case I declined because after looking into the reviews on glassdoor, and tracking down people I was replacing, I found out they were bad places to go.
So, I do get what you're saying about due diligence, especially with the manager. I've asked questions about change request process, culture, management style. Trouble is, you can never tell for sure. And even if you get a good one, they move on, get promoted, shuffled, whatever.
Seems the solution is just to change jobs until you find one you like (if you end up in one you don't like), one where you can stomach the BS for a couple years, and when it becomes too much, hop jobs again. Some of the most grounded and astute colleagues I've had agreed that this seems to be the working strategy, and it appears is what they are doing as well. Heck, it's what I'm doing.
Tough to leave this job because of the work from home benefit and the pay. Most jobs will pay me around 125-135K and only part time telework.
Then there is the other possible solution. Change functions? I've reached the point of unconscious competence, and I recognize it when I went through training for this kind of stuff. I recognize myself from the video. It's easy for me to find fault with others around me or how things are done when I know more than them. Maybe I should just take the pay cut and move into a different role? I've been wanting to go back into management for a while.
You know the company is too middle heavy when they have too many paper pushers and not enough workers. Of course most companies solution is to outsource the IT work. Don't worry, when a recession happens again the PM jobs will be cut and those folks will become jobless.
I know a buddy with 25 yrs or IT experience tells me if you want longevity and enjoy the work don't become a PM. It's the career killer job, unless you are really a good PM. Anybody who got promoted to PM and are just those email tag PM will have their day and will become expendable during job cuts.
The last recession I saw many IT people get let go and some of those folks haven't recovered fully from it.
Just worry about your own skills and trade.
I went through that a few years ago at one company. Eventually they brought PM's back and we were back to having projects falling behind, etc.
I left but predicted due to the dysfunction that they would go under, and from the one or two colleagues still there, sales are down every quarter and the management keeps doing what doesn't work. Even the reviews on glassdoor call out the management as in over their head in nearly every review.
So depending on the company, they may bring the function back. Heck they got rid of a bunch at my last job even but they are slowly starting to bring them back.
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