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While that's certainly true in theory, I don't think it's true in practice (both figuratively and literally). I would be curious to know what institutions or organizations, even in rural locations, will hire a physician who hasn't completed an accredited residency training program somewhere in the US or elsewhere. The liability is just too high. And even for non clinical jobs (insurance, research), they will usually require at least one active license, often difficult to obtain without completing a residency. And if you're a foreign educated and trained doctor, you have to pass a series of tests to assess you clinical knowledge, knowledge of the English language etc, though how high the bar is on these tests is a matter of debate in some people's opinion.
But, if there are places that allow you to just finish med school and hang your shingle, I would be very wary of letting that practitioner treat me.
That or elsewhere is important to me. Maybe not to you, but it is important to me.
That or elsewhere is important to me. Maybe not to you, but it is important to me.
I don't necessarily disagree. But not all elsewhere's are the same in my experience working in the field, and so much of it is practitioner specific. Hard to assess when you doing the research to make the decision about whether or not to see a doctor.
Last edited by Texas Ag 93; 11-17-2016 at 06:26 AM..
Off topic: I thought insurance companies and or the affordable care act was destroying doctor pay in the US anyway? I truly do not know but I think I have seen segments or blurbs on this while watching the news or reading CNN?
Apparently you're not familiar with the medical school systems in foreign countries. One can knock out" medical school in 4-5 years in many foreign countries, as opposed to 10-12 years here in the USA. Its NOT because foreign medical students are smarter, more conscientious, etc,. Its because in most foreign countries, if one wants to go to medical school, they go right after high school. No fooling around getting an undergraduate degree first. I knew a guy from Mexico who went to medical school right after high school, and was an MD at age 21. He got a residency in Mexico, then obtained a fellowship in ophthalmology the USA at age 25. Yes, it helped he was intelligent and hard-working, etc, etc, but that wasn't why he was so ahead for his age. Its because he wasn't required to spend 4+ years fooling around getting an undergrad degree, so he could be "well-rounded".
We push too much in the direction of "general education" to prepare for professional education in this country. That's what high school is for By the time a person gets through 4+ years of undergrad, they're financially drained, not to mention worn out emotionally, just to begin! The foreign medical "graduates" are NOT brighter, harder-working, etc than their American counterparts. Their system allows them to get into their chosen profession about 4 years earlier.
In most countries students get into a Medicine course right after high school, but they get a Bachelor s degree in medicine.
And Going by the tuition costs of the colleges, this "get an UG degree" is not surprising. Some one has to investigate the College mafia too.
A lot of it goes back to the reasons why physicians from other countries are seeking to leave and come to the U.S. For those from Western Europe, socialized medicine is not all it's cracked up to be.
In the U.S., about 25% of all physicians are foreign born. In the UK, it's approximately 35% and at the same time, more of their physicians are seeking to leave than in any other European country. A double whammy that leads to a brain drain.
Let's be honest. The reason so many physicians want to come to the USA is because salaries for physicians here are the highest in the world--particularly for specialists. Being a physician involves years of education and training. It also results in a salary that is greater than any other profession. Its an unintended consequence of high compensation for physicians that has gone on for decades.
I suppose, if I had my way I'd try to favor graduates of American medical schools for the limited number of residency slots. At the same time, if I had my way, I'd reduce physician compensation as I think its one of many elements that drives the cost of medical care in this country sky-high.
In a sense, physicians in this country did this to themselves. They helped create a system where compensation was artificially high. Now, they are surprised that foreigners want a piece of the action. Its hardly surprising.
Let's be honest. The reason so many physicians want to come to the USA is because salaries for physicians here are the highest in the world--particularly for specialists. Being a physician involves years of education and training. It also results in a salary that is greater than any other profession. Its an unintended consequence of high compensation for physicians that has gone on for decades.
I suppose, if I had my way I'd try to favor graduates of American medical schools for the limited number of residency slots. At the same time, if I had my way, I'd reduce physician compensation as I think its one of many elements that drives the cost of medical care in this country sky-high.
In a sense, physicians in this country did this to themselves. They helped create a system where compensation was artificially high. Now, they are surprised that foreigners want a piece of the action. Its hardly surprising.
unless the govt pays all the expenses incurred by becoming Dr, I don't think you can dictate what their pay is. why should all the CEOs get their millions? why not the Drs? Drs spent more years educating/training themselves compared to CEOs?
the only way to lower medical cost is not to require the citizens to have insurance. we should be allowed to choose how to pay our medical needs by having insurance or pay cash or stay healthy always. if you are young and healthy, you should have option to save for expected medical needs and not forced to buy insurance.
if doctors and hospitals know that there is not an insurance to get their payment, they will think twice to charge what the market can not pay. of course, if you don't have the insurance or the money, you should be prepared to be bankrupt if you have catastrophic illness but at least you allow market forces to do its thing.
The problem is that there is no 'market forces' in American medical care. You can't get a quote, for example, for a typical medical procedure all in. For example the anesthesiologist is an independent contractor and you can't choose him/her. Even if you have insurance it the anesthesiologist isn't on your carrier's preferred provider list you get zinged for going off PPO.
Just try to get a quote for a mammogram.. or to fix a bunion.
It is true that foreign born physicians are often willing to work where others will not. A father of one of my grandchildren's friends worked as a hospitalist in a somewhat remote hospital (4 hour freeway drive from any metro area. He is a smart fellow. He worked in that hospital for several years to secure a permanent green card. Let me assure you he earned it. Now he is working in Chicago, I miss that family.
The problem is that there is no 'market forces' in American medical care. You can't get a quote, for example, for a typical medical procedure all in. For example the anesthesiologist is an independent contractor and you can't choose him/her. Even if you have insurance it the anesthesiologist isn't on your carrier's preferred provider list you get zinged for going off PPO.
Just try to get a quote for a mammogram.. or to fix a bunion.
It is true that foreign born physicians are often willing to work where others will not. A father of one of my grandchildren's friends worked as a hospitalist in a somewhat remote hospital (4 hour freeway drive from any metro area. He is a smart fellow. He worked in that hospital for several years to secure a permanent green card. Let me assure you he earned it. Now he is working in Chicago, I miss that family.
the reason the market doesn't work in medical field is that they don't allow it to work. an insurance should only cover risks that can be foreseen. And you base the rates base on that risk. young and healthy should have very minimal rates or even allowed not have insurance, just make sure they save.
health insurance is a tax. they just don't want to call it a tax
the reason the market doesn't work in medical field is that they don't allow it to work. an insurance should only cover risks that can be foreseen. And you base the rates base on that risk. young and healthy should have very minimal rates or even allowed not have insurance, just make sure they save.
health insurance is a tax. they just don't want to call it a tax
You would allow people to have no insurance and one day they have an accident that requires immediate surgery or just a tough disease all of sudden and you would want them to put all their savings into that?
Insurance are supposed to help people to pay less and still benefit from healthcare. If not, you are basically saying to 99% of the population to "die" if they can't afford the healthcare costs.
Just like education, healthcare is not a tax, it's a necessity to enjoy life with a minimum of dignity.
You would allow people to have no insurance and one day they have an accident that requires immediate surgery or just a tough disease all of sudden and you would want them to put all their savings into that?
Insurance are supposed to help people to pay less and still benefit from healthcare. If not, you are basically saying to 99% of the population to "die" if they can't afford the healthcare costs.
Just like education, healthcare is not a tax, it's a necessity to enjoy life with a minimum of dignity.
that's why I said market forces is not working in healthcare. so you cant force dr to accept lower pay when they are indebted close to what half million dollars or more?
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By the time a person gets through 4+ years of undergrad, they're financially drained, not to mention worn out emotionally, just to begin! The foreign medical "graduates" are NOT brighter, harder-working, etc than their American counterparts. Their system allows them to get into their chosen profession about 4 years earlier.
