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The generation of pandering is slowly fading, as the older generations retire and become irrelavent in the work place millenials will move up and what used to be common sense and the norm will no longer be.
I am glad that the millenials are such a huge group that have acted unified in this regard.
Who wants to work weekends and have a crap work life balance? The only reason people behave this way is because we have this "I am lucky to even have a job" mentality, I am glad there are a significant number of people bucking that trend. It will force business to tighten up their business model and provide human rights at work. If they cant make money without treating people like slaves then they need to fail, those people need to go broke and exit the market.
the truly lazy people will weed themselves out. Requiring work life balance does not make you lazy.
I have asked about work/life balance, and I happily discuss it with candidates.
Yes, you need to address it carefully. If you ask about w/l and pay, but nothing else, you won't get the job. If you also ask relevant questions about the job, it will be ok with many managers. Sure, some old school managers will hold it against you based on some archaic standards, but you may not want to work for them anyway.
This risk is easier to take if you are currently employed of course.
For the record, I am not a millennial. I am a reasonable gen-x.
How on earth are you supposed to find out the work-life balance of a company just by researching on your own online?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Blue 99
Exactly. This is so dependent on individual departments and even who your direct supervisor is. Unless you know someone who has worked in that group, you can't find any reliable info online.
I agree with others that you shouldn’t ask about work-life balance in an early interview. But I’m surprised at the people here saying you should never ask about it. I’m assuming these posters don’t have young children.
Years ago I was using some contracting companies to try and get out of a toxic environment. Thing is, said environment was really flexible and only a mile from home. I'd been there over 5 years and had earned my flexibility. I was there from 1996-2001 so remote work was in its infancy, but I didn't have to worry about getting to work exactly on the dot.
I went on an interview for a company about 8 miles away - it was a hard 8 miles though, all busy back roads - around holidays or in snow it could take me 45 minutes. As a contractor I was going to get zero benefits but the salary was great and it would look good on my resume and maybe open more doors in the future (in reality it burnt me completely out of the industry).
During that interview I met with one of the department heads. I had never worked for a large company before so I had no idea just how many departments heads there could be. He was more like a team lead, I found out later. He voluntarily gushed on and on about work/life balance and how no one died wishing they had worked more and how everyone needs to smell the roses. I asked him about start/end times as I liked to come in after going to the gym early and that was all ok too. Sounds great, right?
What really happened was they needed an extra person. Another contractor had been there about 6 months and had been complaining that he didn't have the flexibility he needed to take care of his kids. His schedule fluctuated between school year and summer and kids sports. I was expected to work whatever he didn't work and it could change daily. And the best part is, they never told me until a couple of team members were ready to kill me for leaving at 4!!! I was coming in by 7:30, taking a 30 minute lunch at best and leaving around 4. This happened to be the same time that the other guy was leaving at 4 which only left one person to man the phones until 5. I had no idea.
I was pulled into the real department heads office and read the riot act. I was told the guy who interviewed me told me all the wrong info and that I had to work with the other contractor to figure out my hours based on his. They had to keep the support lines open until 5pm and one of us had to stay, he didn't care who, and the other guy had seniority. Didn't matter what I had been told. Oh and it's a mandatory full hour lunch - find something to do if it doesn't take that long to eat. I'd always worked at places that allowed us to work through lunch and leave that much earlier.
I spent the next 3.5 years completely tied to this guys kids schedules. And I don't like kids so that made it even worse. Sure there were times that he had to put them on the bus and didn't come in till 9, meaning I got the early shift, but he didn't like the late shift either and did all he could to stick me with it.
It was absolute hell for me. For most of my working life, unless it was a night job, I'd had jobs close to home that allowed me to leave between 4-4:30. Now I was much further away and stuck until 5 - sometimes I didn't get home until close to 6. To this day I have a mental thing about working past 4 on a job I have to punch in and out for - client work I'll do all day and night. Weird I know. It's the flexibility that means everything to me. Luckily I got along with most of the team members better than he did, and they did their best to help me out with scheduling, but wow I couldn't wait to get out of there.
Anyway, long story - but bottom line is even getting it from "the horses mouth" doesn't always mean it's right. and it's why I work for myself as much as possible these days.
I have asked about work/life balance, and I happily discuss it with candidates.
Yes, you need to address it carefully. If you ask about w/l and pay, but nothing else, you won't get the job. If you also ask relevant questions about the job, it will be ok with many managers. Sure, some old school managers will hold it against you based on some archaic standards, but you may not want to work for them anyway.
This risk is easier to take if you are currently employed of course.
For the record, I am not a millennial. I am a reasonable gen-x.
Or not in a situation where you are going to die if you dont get this job. If I am in a situation where I am so desperate for a job that I may die of exposure then maybe thats just my time to go. I think for most people its phycological they think they need this job but in reality they dont.
Its already happening, work places with draconian polices have massive turn over and no shows. People are simplifying their lives/living and home and are less tolerant of this sort of behavior from companies. As the older generations move out of the work place this will happen more and more.
People will still be paid market rate but the whole slave driving people into ridiculous hours will fade away as people stop tolerating it. Low wages will become less of an issue as things like tiny homes and other simple living proliferate.
Working against this theory is the globalization of the work force. US workers are extremely expensive right now. If the job can be performed remotely, it can be performed in a much more cost advantageous manner elsewhere. There will continue to be wage pressure for US workers, so even when the baby boomers leave the workforce, US workers will still need to prove that they are worth all the extra money they are paid.
Working against this theory is the globalization of the work force. US workers are extremely expensive right now. If the job can be performed remotely, it can be performed in a much more cost advantageous manner elsewhere. There will continue to be wage pressure for US workers, so even when the baby boomers leave the workforce, US workers will still need to prove that they are worth all the extra money they are paid.
Globalization only works for so long. It brings other countries up to par with the U.S. and then people in those countries start to demand the same protections that U.S. workers get. I am sure you notice that for some jobs, like factory work, the locations of production move every few years. That's because it eventually becomes cost ineffective in one location.
I had one friend who did corporate training and he was telling me that some of the early locations like India are simply not as popular for offshoring now because the cost differential is not there. Indians may be popular as H1b workers, but many companies (certainly not all) don't see the point when it's only 1/3 the cost to hire an Indian worker and people would rather have an American to speak to on the phone for tech support, etc. A lot of good companies also have people from the U.S. going out there to inspect (my BIL's father used to do this) foreign plants to ensure they are up to American standards, and that is also going to increase prices.
I have asked about work/life balance, and I happily discuss it with candidates.
Yes, you need to address it carefully. If you ask about w/l and pay, but nothing else, you won't get the job. If you also ask relevant questions about the job, it will be ok with many managers. Sure, some old school managers will hold it against you based on some archaic standards, but you may not want to work for them anyway.
This is a reasonable approach. You would think that this is obvious, but according to the posts on this forum, you'd think that the vast majority of people walk into interviews and the first question to escape their mouth is about how much time they will have off. Uhhhh...
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
For the record, I am not a millennial. I am a reasonable gen-x.
This is not so much a generational issue as it is a period of enlightenment for the subsequent younger workforce. For a lot of younger people, they observed their parents and elders be miserably beholden to their jobs and employers over the years, go through multiple divorces and mid-life crises as a result of the stress they put on themselves to live the life that was "expected" of them, and basically said "yeah, no thanks".
I'm not sure why there are some people who are against this idea that it's alright to want to enjoy life a little more than work. Part of the big push for AI and automation is to allow human beings to focus more on the things that they wish to be focusing on, whether that be a creative outlet, entrepreneurial endeavors, or nothing significant at all. However, there seems to be a coalition of people commenting here who are adamant about holding on to the last vestiges of yesteryear's work practices and expectations that work comes before all else. The future is already upon us, Folks. Like it or not, you cannot stop progress. They've been trying for ages to no avail. Work/life balance has become a large component in attracting talent to companies. Automation and AI are already taking hold, and are improving at light speed due to technology. In 10-20 years, these types of discussions are going to take on a whole different construct altogether. But one thing will certainly never change, and that's people lamenting change and the ensuing "Back in my day..." nostalgia that results from change.
Last edited by Thom Hanks; 06-22-2017 at 07:59 AM..
The private sector is awful, glad I work in government where we don't have to play these stupid games to please MBA having middle management know-nothing nobodies. We work 40 hours a week and if we work more we get overtime or comp time.
I always ask. I'm in an area where it can either be great or non existent so I make sure to ask once I find out about the job during the rest of the interview. Interviews are your chance to interview the company not just their chance to interview you. I have always been offered the job so it obviously didn't hurt.
The way I see it is this: If there's no balance I won't be taking the job anyways so it's a moot point to continue after the first interview. And if I don't ask I won't know. However I am in a job which requires multiple certifications and degrees that aren't common so I have more of a bargaining chip. I also think it depends on where you are in your career - first job, no. 10+ years in - perfectly fine.
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