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As sad as it is, under UBI, I'd say that if you use up all your funds for the month, you are just SOL until you get your next payment the next month. I imagine private charities will make a comeback.
Thank you -- so it's what I've been wondering all along about UBI...not its necessity or utility but what to do about the "special cases" which will inevitably crop up.
Such as all too many of my fellow homeless who just hang around all day "eating candy"...I do believe some -- even many -- of them will "straighten up" with UBI since they'll have not just hope but the actual guarantee of a dignified life...but some (a minority, I do believe) will still squander away their UBI since they're just too far gone.
So perhaps there will be a transitional phase of a generation or two while these unfortunates live out their lives and perhaps shelters and other such facilities -- and the "charities" (or, more to the point, the Poverty Industrial Complex) that administer them -- will be needed yet for a few more decades to come.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic Qwan
The point of UBI is it will allow people to live modestly plus a little extra so long as they are just enjoying the basic bare necessities in life. I say enough to pay for a dignified basic living PLUS a little extra, so shrewd people who aren't able to work for some reason will be able to save up and maybe get job training in something useful after a couple of years of saving.
Hear, hear! Magic Qwan for Prez!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic Qwan
There could be double UBI if you are certified 100% disabled, but otherwise, the point of UBI is it gets you by without you having to worry if making more money will make you lose everything.
Goodness, so eminently sensible...are you a time-traveler from the future?? ;-)
Once all the jobs are replace by machine, then what is a person going to do to survive? You can have every person working on them, but their cost in wages will cheap as supply vs demand will not be a affected tool. Got to draw the line some where, "that automation is done here but not in this field"
Here's the thing: new jobs will be created. Do you know how many of the big job creators (Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Apple -- as opposed to the local small business Trump supporter beating his or her chest about creating a few almost-minimum-wage gigs) are rich people who didn't have to worry about basic living expenses??
Plus, these new jobs wouldn't have to pay so much because UBI's already taken care of basic living expenses (plus a small "discretionary" stipend in some more generous interpretations of UBI).
Think about all the opportunity costs of not having UBI and you'll see that UBI is actually the far cheaper alternative! No more filling out workmen's compensation forms, no more figuring out employee health benefits -- business will benefit from dramatically reduced administrative costs and other overhead! And that's just businesses...the government would benefit too, as well as of course The People -- all The People!
It's like having kept women from working...half your population not contributing directly to the economy...think about that...well, UBI will make 100% of the population do what they really want to do -- which labors of love correlate highly with efficiency and competency!!
The point of UBI is get EVERYONE dependent on government. It's an easy way to control the population.
Unfortunately, everyone is already dependent on the government, no matter how rich or entitled they are. There are boundaries that the government won't let anyone cross. No one is allowed to step out of line without serious consequences.
That is exactly the problem with full automation. Once all jobs are taken by the machines (machines will service, support, and repair other machines), people won't have jobs or money to buy anything that the machines produce. So the system will collapse on itself.
The government and the people will have to devise solutions to overcome this problem. One solution is for the government to nationalize the industries and produce the goods and services and give them to the people for free. Many people don't like that solution because that is a government handout for "entitled" people. Another solution is to outlaw the machines, smash them up, and then declare that only people can have jobs. Still another solution is to go with the first one of having the machines produce everything for free, but put a fig leaf on the "entitlement" problem by giving people government "make work" fake jobs much like George Jetson on "The Jetsons" where he pushes a button and all the work is done for him. That would ease the consciences of many people by allowing them to think that they are still contributing to society and are not entitled (clever psyops), where they really are.
It is difficult to predict what scenario would happen, but I'm sure that we are in for a bumpy ride.
Yes, the transitional period...UBI must be implemented fully and all at once, it seems to me, to be UBI and not be defeated by half-measures like so many welfare programs were almost strangled at birth....
So, speaking of welfare, a lot of the freeloaders gave welfare a very bad name (especially when mixed up with so-called black liberation ideologies and black identity politics and just grievance politics in general) so it's vitally important for UBI's success that it is fully funded and universally implemented from the start. No transitional period as far as this is concerned -- I'm wondering about the transition in terms of the wider economy.
Let's see...so everyone -- including our already well-fed MLSFan, LOL -- now gets a check for, say, $1,200 a month for life...I know that's nothing to live on in NYC or LA but folks will just move to North Dakota or something, say, thereby driving the local economies there, while price pressures start to be relieved in NYC, LA, etc.
Now in time businesses will have to increase wages naturally to attract workers...and naturally many will shutter. But since everyone's got UBI, no worries -- not really, even if you have to relocate to Wyoming or Kansas.
And this drives down property values and rents in NYC, etc. -- and in time (five to ten years?) people start coming back again...but now all the artists, the "cultural folks," the people who make life so interesting that even stodgy bankers and accountants want to live in a big city like NYC, these folks will have gone elsewhere, many of them, and power of all kinds will be more evenly and thus equitably distributed, especially thanks to the internet and modern technology in general making it unnecessary for the old capitals of finance, fashion, what have you, of yore since, thanks to UBI, people can be as free to move around as capital itself (money and other non-human means of production) has long been able to....
It'll be a brave new beautiful world, such that we can't even imagine it: "Another world is possible!"
You guys seriously don't think they'd really use UBI, do you? Heck, they'd mandate sterilization of those too poor and also cut off benefits to people deemed too old to keep around by socialized medicine or not good enough for the society due to disability, poverty, etc. That's what would happen.
Please, don't trust the Zuckerberg billionaire types or the socialist (really Communist) politician types with your future and the fate of future generations. Tens of millions (possibly into the 100's of millions now) of people have made that tragic mistake throughout history and paid with their lives!
Please, "death panels" are so Obama-era....
Your kind has been screaming this stuff ever since someone proposed the eight-hour workday. Heck, Warren Buffett's own father was a paleo-conservative raging against FDR's New Deal.
UBI will allow people to really start working on curing death itself....
The point of UBI is get EVERYONE dependent on government. It's an easy way to control the population.
You are already controlled, right now, today, and have been all your yesterdays and yesteryears....
UBI will allow for true freedom -- not only freedom from but freedom to....
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Everyone is Dependent on the Government Already
