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You will probably ignore this comment. I was a career changer in my 40s. I used my current experience and did lateral and upward job changes that moved me step by step closer to the ultimate job that I wanted. I built up my experience over a series of jobs. So, yeah, SMART PEOPLE can change careers and be successful.
Was this in one company? If not, how did you find employers who accept transferable skills and don't automatically reject people who don't have the proper job titles?
And when did you do this career change? You mentioned the 90's once which was a different time (dot com boom, plenty of entry level jobs that required no experience in tech)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
Likewise. I changed careers in my mid-40s in much the same manner. I took cross career experience and built upon that.
I quit a job in my previous profession and spent several months looking for a new position with a different emphasis. It was somewhat related to my previous career path, which is why I was able to use my skills. Let’s say I was in career path A, and the new job was a combination of A and B.
I did that job for a couple of years, then did an internal transfer to a position that does something else entirely different. There were elements of my first career of course, things like budgetary analysis responsibility, contracting knowledge, some other specifics.
I didn’t do a dramatic jump like software engineer to pastry chef. It was similar to auto mechanic to industrial safety. An auto mechanic has a knowledge of certain chemicals, some HVAC, electrical, and mechanical systems, plus knowledge of safety equipment, processes and record-keeping. A substantial change, but not a revolutionary change. That original career formed the basis of my knowledge when I transitioned.
I quit a job in my previous profession and spent several months looking for a new position with a different emphasis. It was somewhat related to my previous career path, which is why I was able to use my skills. Let’s say I was in career path A, and the new job was a combination of A and B.
I did that job for a couple of years, then did an internal transfer to a position that does something else entirely different. There were elements of my first career of course, things like budgetary analysis responsibility, contracting knowledge, some other specifics.
I didn’t do a dramatic jump like software engineer to pastry chef. It was similar to auto mechanic to industrial safety. An auto mechanic has a knowledge of certain chemicals, some HVAC, electrical, and mechanical systems, plus knowledge of safety equipment, processes and record-keeping. A substantial change, but not a revolutionary change. That original career formed the basis of my knowledge when I transitioned.
And it sounds like you found an employer willing to accept people with transferable skills, rather than just pound the drum on "job title only" emphasis.
If more employers did this, the "talent shortage" would disappear quickly.
You get a job by being one of the top candidates. Are you still fixated on getting a government job or have you begin taking your job search seriously and broadening your target jobs?
I have been searching as broad as possible. I dropped the govt job only thing almost a year ago. A govt job would be amazing but its hard.
What do you think an "entry level job" is today? That's a serious question. Clearly you must have some specific things in mind as examples, and you must think they are plentiful enough to cast out as the general answer available to millions of youth every year.
no, I mean, if someone chooses college and also chooses to not work for 4 years, what do you think the people that didn't go to college have been doing? they have been working and gaining experience.
4 years of experience, or 4 years of doing homework? Which looks better for an entry level job?
that's what I mean when I said they need to gain experience in college. It doesn't have to be from a job, but they need to be able to put together a portfolio of the experience and skills they gained in college. Outside of showing up for class and turning in homework/taking tests... what does a college grad have to show for it? What does a degree signify when they can't list out what they gained to get that degree by spending 4 years of their lives?
Either work in college, or join clubs/projects to develop something to show for attending college, because the rest of the world is moving on while people are in college. It isn't like they get to graduate college then compete with their former 18 year old peers. What they are competing against are other people their ages and older, who have been working on top of having a degree themselves.
Entry level doesn't mean no experience/unexperienced to me... it means it is what it takes to get into that industry. If you choose food industry, then yes entry level would be fast food worker. If someone choose engineering, then they need to figure out what kind of entry jobs are for that field. And it is not working in an office as a secretary at an engineering firm. I'm not an engineer, so I can't say what it takes to get started in it, but I'm fairly certain waving a degree around is the least ineffective way of getting a job.
for me, I go by the defunct but still good enough standard of "it takes 10,000 hours to master" a skill, and by full time work that means 5 years. So 0-5 years would be "entry" level. It is their first job(s) until they learn enough to be able to function independently in their role without micromanagement/supervision. No, they won't stop learning, but for the job they are doing, they can be left alone and be trusted that it gets done.
Interesting comment which does not reflect the reality of the typical college grad.
How do you expect people to get experience during college? During the school year, part-time jobs are the only answer, and the only jobs that provide that are McJobs. Employers do not count McJobs as experience when they're evaluting people for entry level work.
You expect employers to say:
"You! Yes you! You served me the a delicious Big Mac! I want to hire you for a ground floor opportunity with plenty of advancement potential in your field of study!"
Never going to happen.
Then let's say as you expect, the student manages to win the lottery and get an internship (after beating out hundreds of other students who are competing against them for the same internship) during summertime. And they are actually living with mommy and daddy to make the financial impact doable.
Then LETS say they rock at their internship. The employer is impressed.
THEN the student must win another lottery and actually get offered a FTE job after graduation. There is no guarantee, that if someone does well, that they'll even get offered a job at the company after graduation.
As you know, there are no internships for those who have already graduated. After all, those people are not worthy of a chance to get their foot in the door. Shame on them! How dare they focus on their studies. They did very wrong!
But wait! If the poor student does not land a FTE job offer after the internship, they are not qualified whatsoever for the typical entry level job that requires 2-3 years experience. A 3-4 month internship is not enough for 2-3 years experience. And McJobs' experience don't count.
So what happens is the student graduates, applies for jobs, hears crickets and has to work a McJob after graduation. And none of that McJob experience counts for an entry level job.
But wait! Your comment also does not take into account career changers! They're already working full time and taking college classes at night to improve themselves and find a job in another field.
They cannot take unpaid internships - they don't have mommy and daddy to live with during that time.
They cannot take minimum wage internships. They can't afford to quit their current job. Maybe if they're currently out of work, this is a possibility, but again, they don't live with mommy and daddy.
In addition, employers don't count experience the career changer had in their current or old role. Remember, this is a career change. Yes, there are plenty of transferable skills, but none of them count because the job title is different. Employers look for experience by job title, not by tasks done.
This is 2018. This is not 1955.
I agree it's harder today, but not impossible. I was an older career changer, but went into a field that required 6 months of unpaid internships (clinical affiliations in my case). I knew that going in. There are fields that do so.
But for an example for younger kids...my former bosses daughter wanted to be a Buyer for department stores, a highly competitive field for which there are many more applicants than jobs. She started her resume in high school, joining the Marketing club, and working part time in clothing stores. She got into a great school for fashion merchandising, but in the summers and over holiday breaks worked at a middle-high end clothing store. Not only did she work though, she went above and beyond. She had ideas she presented for layout of clothes and used the things she learned in the marketing club to make herself stand out. She ended up with letters of recommendation not just from the store personnel, but actually made an impression on the corporate people. She got hired as a buyer from a major department store chain immediately after graduation.
The lesson I think, is that for certain careers, you need to know early and start readying a resume and experience even while in high school.
And you have to just keep trying. Years and years ago before I went back to college, I took a several week long bartending class. Bartending is one field where EVERY ad says "experience only". I went to every mom and pop bar and applied for every opening. I found a job at a small rural bar that mainly only locals went to and barely made anything, but once I had that experience, that was a key I could use to move up. I then got a part-time job doing weddings and bar mitzvah's at a country club. That led to applying for a huge chain that was opening. I was given the opportunity to compete for a job with 2 dozen others, most of whom were much faster than I was, and I didn't get that job, but I did have the opportunity to. I just wasn't that good of a bartender.
Even at a job at McDonalds, you can make yourself stand out. In fact, I think it'd be easier at a place like McDonalds where most employees are just trying to get through the day.
Even volunteer work can help. If you want to be a manager, or a PR person, or marketing, volunteer to help do those things for a local political campaign during an election. Come away with letters of recommendation stating you organized a team, had role in creating local PR campaign, made improvements to their website, whatever the field is you want to be in, find a way to contribute those skills.
That's what it literally means. By definition, half of all people are below average. Half of all Americans are below the average American. That's the literal definition of average. Middle. 50% above and 50% below. (mean vs. average withstanding)
I understand math. There are connotations that come with declaring half of America below average. If we say that IT work is for people who are average to above average. That would mean most Americans have no potential of ever getting those jobs. When those jobs come open as technology grows, then...
Same with most emerging fields. Everything from material science to biomedicine. Are we conceding that America will need immigrants to handle the hard stuff while the below average Americans do the lower level jobs? Don't forget to factor in the fact that only about 30% of Americans have any degree.
Wherever the line is, I'll be on the above average side of it.
...new electronic fab plants like that billion dollar Intel fab in Arizona.
It's actually a bit north of $6 Billion for Intel to build a modern fab.
(For non-techies, a "fab" is a "semiconductor wafer fabrication factory." Fabs have tons of very high paying jobs - jobs for BSs/MSs/PhDs in Electrical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, Industrial Engineering, Chemical Engineering, Chemistry, Materials Science, etc etc. Fabs start with a thin wafer of pure silicon the size of a dinner plate and spend months growing transistors on it -- each area on that wafer the size of your thumbnail will ultimately have over 8-12 Billion transistors grown onto it. Each of these chips -- a microprocessor -- is arguably the most complex thing ever invented or manufactured by mankind.)
One thing you haven't taken into account of is work ethic. Americans, in general, are lazier than "immigrants".
Yeah, in America, it is easy to be lazy. The government pays people not to work, and then people who actually contribute to society wonder why so many sit on their butts and do nothing.
It's actually a bit north of $6 Billion for Intel to build a modern fab.
(For non-techies, a "fab" is a "semiconductor wafer fabrication factory." Fabs have tons of very high paying jobs - jobs for BSs/MSs/PhDs in Electrical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, Industrial Engineering, Chemical Engineering, Chemistry, Materials Science, etc etc. Fabs start with a thin wafer of pure silicon the size of a dinner plate and spend months growing transistors on it -- each area on that wafer the size of your thumbnail will ultimately have over 8-12 Billion transistors grown onto it. Each of these chips -- a microprocessor -- is arguably the most complex thing ever invented or manufactured by mankind.)
We fabricated transistors on chips and had a lab for it. A billion dollars sounds like a fleece.
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