Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-10-2010, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
1,278 posts, read 2,314,705 times
Reputation: 929

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
mcb1025,

Take Branson's post with a grain of salt. It is true that a lot of success is dependent on "connections" and "who you know" but it is ludicrous to claim, as she has, that all who have attained success have done so by "kissing ass."

As one who, like Branson, holds a bachelor's degree in English Literature but who managed to come up through the ranks whilst simultaneously maintaining my integrity-and who kisses no ass other than GOD'S --I assure you hard work and talent ARE essential variables in the equation for most of us.

They are not, however, usually "enough." Learning how to deal with politics effectively is another essential component, but this is NOT the same thing as "kissing ass." For those of us who are not natural politicians, learning to navigate politics is a matter of experience, much of it gained through trial and error (and also training, if you can afford to pay for it on your own).

Given her tendency to overgeneralize based solely on her own unfortunate experience, I suspect perhaps part of Branson's problem is that she comes off in business interactions as a little too much as a "know it all" and that this rubs the right people in the wrong way. Yes, such a personal quality can hold back even smart, educated, and talented individuals.

Moreover, contrary to Branson's claim, you should never, ever "use" anyone for anything, including furthering your career. It is not only immoral, it is also unwise. It is, however, essential to learn how to "box clever" with all your higher-ups, most especially your boss, and "pretending to like people solely for the purpose of getting ahead" and good business manners are not the same thing. I know you will understand the difference.

Finally, the most important variable after the three I mentioned above is plain and simple LUCK.
Another fine post, DreamingSpires.

In 20yrsinBranson's case, those not willing to adapt become extinct. I suffered from social anxiety not too long ago. On occassion, I still have a hard time when I'm amongst larger groups. But I forced myself into social situations because I understood what was necessary to succeed in business. I wish her the best in overcoming this dilemma.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-10-2010, 11:55 AM
 
Location: NJ
17,573 posts, read 46,182,905 times
Reputation: 16279
"Connections" and "who you know" could very well come about from impressing people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2010, 11:56 AM
 
1,468 posts, read 2,121,633 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
"Connections" and "who you know" could very well come about from impressing people.
mcb1025,

Copy that phrase onto an index card and tape it to your bathroom mirror.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2010, 12:00 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,852 posts, read 35,165,287 times
Reputation: 22700
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcb1025 View Post
Another fine post, DreamingSpires.

In 20yrsinBranson's case, those not willing to adapt become extinct. I suffered from social anxiety not too long ago. On occassion, I still have a hard time when I'm amongst larger groups. But I forced myself into social situations because I understood what was necessary to succeed in business. I wish her the best in overcoming this dilemma.
I have always operated under the naive and somewhat antiquated notion that doing a good job should be enough; that business should be business and considerations about personality, friendships, etc., are things that should occur outside of business and have no influence on it. I don't see why that philosophy should be wrong.

20yrsinBranson
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2010, 12:03 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 2,121,633 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
I think our definitions of kissing butt are different. My problem is more one of being very independent and a tad anti-social more than coming across like a know it all. I only do that here on CD. LOL In person I am actually a little reserved and shy. Hard to believe, I know.

It is very painful for me to interact with people on *any* level, and that is my downfall. I will not - CANNOT - play the "social" game. While I agree that to be successful you do not have to go OVERBOARD, but you do have to be able to maintain some social connections. The MORE THE BETTER when it comes to getting ahead. And you cannot deny that many, many, MANY jobs are acquired solely due to who you know. Perhaps this is not so much the case in big cities, but I can assure you wholeheartedly, that in the area that I live (rural SW Missouri) it is by far and away, the most important criteria.

But you make very good points.

20yrsinBranson
I feel your pain.

It's very hard for introverts to climb the ladder in any kind of organisation. Extraverts have a huge edge over introverts (ones with exceptional talent--so called "rock stars"--being the exception), and as such, introverts have to find strategies to even the playing field.

It wasn't until I learned strategies to compensate for the handicap of introversion that I was able to transcend it. And I certainly have not transcended it completely, by any stretch of the imagination. It takes enormous psychic/emotional energy for me to even get up in the morning and face an office full of people on a daily basis when I would so much prefer to simply be alone.

In short, you have a handicap and you need to learn to compensate for it. Rebelling against the extravert-friendly world of the American workplace will get you nowhere.

I hope this makes sense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2010, 01:20 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 2,121,633 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcb1025 View Post
Another fine post, DreamingSpires.

In 20yrsinBranson's case, those not willing to adapt become extinct. I suffered from social anxiety not too long ago. On occassion, I still have a hard time when I'm amongst larger groups. But I forced myself into social situations because I understood what was necessary to succeed in business. I wish her the best in overcoming this dilemma.
mcb1025,

If you would be willing to share some of the strategies that you have used successfully in the workplace, that would be great.

As one who has a similar handicap, I am always looking for good tips on this particular subject.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2010, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
1,278 posts, read 2,314,705 times
Reputation: 929
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
mcb1025,

If you would be willing to share some of the strategies that you have used successfully in the workplace, that would be great.

As one who has a similar handicap, I am always looking for good tips on this particular subject.
Absolutely. My career is still pretty young, but I do have some insights regarding my most recent promotion.

The biggest things that helped me were networking, experience with our proprietary systems and being at the right place at the right time. Over the past couple years, I've gotten to know the people in my department fairly well, especially those that work in my specific group. Some of us even hang out outside of work, though I don't consider this a necessity.

Well, one of my co-workers applied for an internal position and ended up getting the position. That left his position available for the taking. The co-worker was going to be on the interview committee, so I asked him about the position. After he described it, I told him I was interested in applying. Since this guy knew me and knew what I was capable of, he pushed for me to get an interview. I heard through the grapevine that I wasn't initially considered for an interview. It wasn't until my co-worker handed off my resume to the other interviewers, that I got a phone interview. The guy who interviewed me was impressed with my knowledge of our internal system, so he set me up for a face-to-face with the committee. I was told that I was up against candidates with 20+ years of experience. Yet, according to my co-worker, I blew the other candidates out of the water with my interviewing skills (apparently I was a lot more engaging and inquisitive). A week later, they called me up with a job offer.

So, I'd definitely say what I said before. Networking, experience/knowledge, and some sheer luck can take you places. Of course, it's up to you which direction you go.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2010, 03:04 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 2,121,633 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcb1025 View Post
Absolutely. My career is still pretty young, but I do have some insights regarding my most recent promotion.

The biggest things that helped me were networking, experience with our proprietary systems and being at the right place at the right time. Over the past couple years, I've gotten to know the people in my department fairly well, especially those that work in my specific group. Some of us even hang out outside of work, though I don't consider this a necessity.

Well, one of my co-workers applied for an internal position and ended up getting the position. That left his position available for the taking. The co-worker was going to be on the interview committee, so I asked him about the position. After he described it, I told him I was interested in applying. Since this guy knew me and knew what I was capable of, he pushed for me to get an interview. I heard through the grapevine that I wasn't initially considered for an interview. It wasn't until my co-worker handed off my resume to the other interviewers, that I got a phone interview. The guy who interviewed me was impressed with my knowledge of our internal system, so he set me up for a face-to-face with the committee. I was told that I was up against candidates with 20+ years of experience. Yet, according to my co-worker, I blew the other candidates out of the water with my interviewing skills (apparently I was a lot more engaging and inquisitive). A week later, they called me up with a job offer.

So, I'd definitely say what I said before. Networking, experience/knowledge, and some sheer luck can take you places. Of course, it's up to you which direction you go.
A great success story -- this is exactly how "networking for the introverted" works. This is the "stealth approach" to career development that I favor and have mentioned from time to time to young people on these forums who think, wrongly, that they need to "start big" with a company and that anything less is a "dead end" job. "Wrong, wrong, wrong attitude" I tell them!

You got to know your colleagues at a basic, "friendly" level (the fact that you like some of them enough to have estabished friendships outside of work is a bonus), AND established a track record of credibility as an excellent worker, and waited patiently until an opportunity came your way, and then you put your hat in the ring in an assertive but not pushy way.

As they say on Ebay, A++++++++
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2010, 03:53 PM
 
311 posts, read 694,571 times
Reputation: 225
I hate having to smooze or beg for work in an interview.I wish the government would facilatate people working for themselves and that would be the norm in this country instead of making a few monopolies ultra rich.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2010, 06:09 PM
 
12,115 posts, read 33,715,359 times
Reputation: 3868
Default well I have to say

that as someone who also has social anxiety and shyness, i agree with the posts above but i can also say that it is extremely depressing to read the above too

i will have been at my place 20 years in september and although i have been making more $$$ steadily over the years and i get a lot of respect for how i carry myself (i am well liked and respected because i am not a person who calls attention to myself), i know that deep down the big $$$ makers at my place, both single and those who are married, probably secretly look down on me because i am not a people pusher. i mean, i can sense they're "nice" to me and like me but don't think very much of me and it hurts big time

and this also feeds on my poor sense of self esteem, it's like at 48 i know i never will make enough $$$ to support a wife and kids, and it's not easy to share with a potential partner that i don't make a lot. and i'm sure my co-workers secretly know this too and it's very uncomfortable to be around them
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:11 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top