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Interesting article regarding the "so called African Chinese Debt Trap." African countries' debts with China are a third of what they owe non-Chinese private lenders, while interest rates are just over half (2.7% vs 5%). Debt is a necessary evil when it comes to development but reading the article does put things into perspective. Most of African debt is held by private sources. The article doesn't cite the private sources, but who would have the capital for such expenditures. I'll take an educated guess and say Western financial institutions or organizations.
This isn't meant to be a China vs the West point, but merely to showcase how people must conduct their own research into matters as opposed to just going along with narratives, especially as they pertain to Africa and particularly when established powers have interest in the status quo. I grew up with the Western narrative that Africa was just disease, poverty, famine, and war. Many in the diaspora have this viewpoint to this day. It wasn't until I conducted my own research and visited the continent I discovered otherwise.
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
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Originally Posted by Ice_Major
Interesting article regarding the "so called African Chinese Debt Trap." African countries' debts with China are a third of what they owe non-Chinese private lenders, while interest rates are just over half (2.7% vs 5%). Debt is a necessary evil when it comes to development but reading the article does put things into perspective. Most of African debt is held by private sources. The article doesn't cite the private sources, but who would have the capital for such expenditures. I'll take an educated guess and say Western financial institutions or organizations.
This isn't meant to be a China vs the West point, but merely to showcase how people must conduct their own research into matters as opposed to just going along with narratives, especially as they pertain to Africa and particularly when established powers have interest in the status quo. I grew up with the Western narrative that Africa was just disease, poverty, famine, and war. Many in the diaspora have this viewpoint to this day. It wasn't until I conducted my own research and visited the continent I discovered otherwise.
Infastructure projects, and the widespread corruption associated with them are more than just nation building that accrues national debt. Underlying geo-political narratives are always at play. The level of its intersectionality depends on the country. The political influence as well as the political and social leverage that can be applied by the debtee country can and will cripple the debtor country.
At this level of national and political finance, whomever holds the debt holds the leverage (and/or power). Its a political and social chess game that can either build generational alliances or force a country into extreme poverty. There are examples of how one sovereignty can cripple the other financially thru out the world. The residents of these countries would be wise to question their political leaders' motivations to get into bed with particular countries for these types of infastructure projects. There are always political motivations at play. And there is widespread abuse of local workers by these Chinese companies that are planted within the countries. It is not harmonious.
Infastructure projects, and the widespread corruption associated with them are more than just nation building that accrues national debt. Underlying geo-political narratives are always at play. The level of its intersectionality depends on the country. The political influence as well as the political and social leverage that can be applied by the debtee country can and will cripple the debtor country.
At this level of national and political finance, whomever holds the debt holds the leverage (and/or power). Its a political and social chess game that can either build generational alliances or force a country into extreme poverty. There are examples of how one sovereignty can cripple the other financially thru out the world. The residents of these countries would be wise to question their political leaders' motivations to get into bed with particular countries for these types of infastructure projects. There are always political motivations at play. And there is widespread abuse of local workers by these Chinese companies that are planted within the countries. It is not harmonious.
The purpose of the post wasn't to debate the merits of debt being good or bad, but merely to point out Western powers are just if not more to blame for African debt issues. They point the finger at the China while ignoring or downplaying their own exploitive actions. The French have been terrible for many African nations, yet many unaware of their deeds.
On a personal level debt is a tool, that if used correctly can lift millions out of poverty. It's needed if any country wants to develop. It's up to the leaders of said countries to properly manage the nation's finances. Unfortunately, many countries have corrupt leaders with no foresight.
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice_Major
The purpose of the post wasn't to debate the merits of debt being good or bad, but merely to point out Western powers are just if not more to blame for African debt issues. They point the finger at the China while ignoring or downplaying their own exploitive actions. The French have been terrible for many African nations, yet many unaware of their deeds.
On a personal level debt is a tool, that if used correctly can lift millions out of poverty. It's needed if any country wants to develop. It's up to the leaders of said countries to properly manage the nation's finances. Unfortunately, many countries have corrupt leaders with no foresight.
No ones debating you....just adding commentary. And Ive not had the pleasure of meeting people so cognitively dissonant as to not acknowledge the geo-political and socioeconomic barbarism enacted by colonizers and/or interloping sovereignties. Its a very well known fact.
And debt on a national level COULD assist in pulling millions out of poverty if the politcal aparatus is acting in a fidcious manner. Brazil during Lulas administration is one example. It brought millions of Brazilians out of poverty and pushed the Brazilian economy into high growth.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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Looking in from the outside I think China's way of dealing with Africa is vastly better than Western dominance then later meddling into internal affairs went. The Chinese are building infrastructure that is lifting many people out of poverty. China does this because their own population is rapidly aging and can not maintain production output. China is trying to move that industry to friendly nations with much younger work forces to ensure free trade back to China.
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,522 posts, read 2,242,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata
Looking in from the outside I think China's way of dealing with Africa is vastly better than Western dominance then later meddling into internal affairs went. The Chinese are building infrastructure that is lifting many people out of poverty. China does this because their own population is rapidly aging and can not maintain production output. China is trying to move that industry to friendly nations with much younger work forces to ensure free trade back to China.
Theres quite a bit of disrespect to the local population by these companies as well. They also dont treat the Africans in China that well. If we are to sit here and say that they are doing what they are doing out of goodwill, we have to be honest. It has a lot to do with political influences. There are natural resources in these Afrian countries, future conflicts to control, etc. Holding the debt is to have leverage in political and economical manner. China is no wealthy benafactor who goes around the world assisting with infastructure projects at a low % rate for goodwill. Lets be intellectually honest here.
From Forbes Magazine " When we look at Africa, we see many countries chasing dreams of a better economic future while burying themselves in massive amounts of infrastructure-induced debt that they may not be able to actually afford. There have already been warning signs: the $4 Addis Ababa-Djibouti Railway ended up costing Ethiopia nearly a quarter of it’s total 2016 budget, Nigeria had to renegotiate a deal with their Chinese contractor due to their failure to pay, and Kenya’s 80% Chinese-financed railway from Mombasa to Nairobi has already gone four times over budget, costing the country upwards of 6% of it’s GDP. In 2012, the IMF found that China owned 15% of Africa’s external debt, and hardly three years later roughly two-thirds of all new loans were coming from China. This has some analysts issuing warnings about debt traps – with some even going as far as calling what China is doing a new form colonialism."
Aalso from Forbes: "China needs what Africa has for long-term economic and political stability. Over a third of China's oil comes from Africa, as does 20% of the country’s cotton. Africa has roughly half of the world’s stock of manganese, an essential ingredient for steel production, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo on its own possesses half of the planet’s cobalt. Africa also has significant amounts of coltan, which is needed for electronics, as well as half of the world’s known supply of carbonatites, a rock formation that’s the primary source of rare earths.
However, there is a common misconception that all Chinese projects in Africa have the backing of Beijing. More often than not, Chinese SOEs are operating in Africa on purely for-profit ventures that don’t have the ambitions of their government in mind. However, it can be difficult to separate China’s commercial intentions in Africa from the strategic, as, in many cases, the two inevitably overlap. The internationalization of Chinese construction firms and IT companies as well as the building of infrastructure to better extract and export African resources, are key concerns for Beijing. So while the infrastructure being built on the ground may not necessarily be orchestrated by Beijing it does ultimately play into China’s broader geo-economic interests."
Looking in from the outside I think China's way of dealing with Africa is vastly better than Western dominance then later meddling into internal affairs went. The Chinese are building infrastructure that is lifting many people out of poverty. China does this because their own population is rapidly aging and can not maintain production output. China is trying to move that industry to friendly nations with much younger work forces to ensure free trade back to China.
Most African nations seem to agree with you. US interests are to try to prevent China from expanding so we continuously try to concoct or greatly exaggerate negative stories. We seem to be unable to actually compete and improve ourselves so this is how it is done.
Seems that China is forgiving a lot of the debt completely which of course is buried in western press. Undoubtably dishonest western propagandists will attempt to create a negative from this story too. Meanwhile China is expanding it's influence through their work.
China waived debt for 17 African countries to argue against western bullying
China, Africa’s largest bilateral lender, waived debt owed by 17 countries in the continent for 23 interest-free loans that were due in 2021.
The context of the latest relief reinforces China’s intention for Africa to consider the Asian power its preferred long-term development partner, especially “in the face of the various forms of hegemonic and bullying practices,” Wang Yi, China’s foreign minister, said. That may have been a reference to the recent contentious visit by US House of Representatives speaker Nancy Pelosi to Taiwan....
Most African nations seem to agree with you. US interests are to try to prevent China from expanding so we continuously try to concoct or greatly exaggerate negative stories. We seem to be unable to actually compete and improve ourselves so this is how it is done.
Seems that China is forgiving a lot of the debt completely which of course is buried in western press. Undoubtably dishonest western propagandists will attempt to create a negative from this story too. Meanwhile China is expanding it's influence through their work.
China waived debt for 17 African countries to argue against western bullying
China, Africa’s largest bilateral lender, waived debt owed by 17 countries in the continent for 23 interest-free loans that were due in 2021.
The context of the latest relief reinforces China’s intention for Africa to consider the Asian power its preferred long-term development partner, especially “in the face of the various forms of hegemonic and bullying practices,” Wang Yi, China’s foreign minister, said. That may have been a reference to the recent contentious visit by US House of Representatives speaker Nancy Pelosi to Taiwan....
You should have posted more of the story. Look all of the African dictators have 1 thing in mind, straddle their countries in Chinese debt, steal as much as they can and then flee to Europe when the heat gets too hot. China is getting something for this, what this is we don't know. It's almost like they are running these countries.
Specifics of the announced relief are not known as the beneficiaries and amount were not disclosed. China canceled debt due to interest-free loans worth $113.8 million that matured in 2020 for 15 African countries including Botswana, Burundi, Rwanda, Cameroon, the DRC, and Mozambique.
Chinese financiers and African governments signed over 1,180 loan commitments worth $160 billion between 2000 and 2020, the China Africa Research Initiative’s (CARI) database shows, two-thirds being for transport, power, and mining projects. Angola, Zambia, Ethiopia, Kenya, and Cameroon have borrowed the most from China in dollar terms.
You should have posted more of the story. Look all of the African dictators have 1 thing in mind, straddle their countries in Chinese debt, steal as much as they can and then flee to Europe when the heat gets too hot. China is getting something for this, what this is we don't know. It's almost like they are running these countries.
Specifics of the announced relief are not known as the beneficiaries and amount were not disclosed. China canceled debt due to interest-free loans worth $113.8 million that matured in 2020 for 15 African countries including Botswana, Burundi, Rwanda, Cameroon, the DRC, and Mozambique.
Chinese financiers and African governments signed over 1,180 loan commitments worth $160 billion between 2000 and 2020, the China Africa Research Initiative’s (CARI) database shows, two-thirds being for transport, power, and mining projects. Angola, Zambia, Ethiopia, Kenya, and Cameroon have borrowed the most from China in dollar terms.
They can't win for losing. Always have to be the bad guy in the eyes of most westerners.
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