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Old 12-08-2018, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,800 posts, read 3,161,435 times
Reputation: 4641

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21.85 trillion in federal debt.

The older baby boomers are 73 and the youngest are 54. Which means the vast majority of baby boomers aren't even full retirement age, but all will be in the dozen years.

https://treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current

3.1 trillion state and local debt which doesn't include unfunded pensions

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SLGSDODNS

$13.51 trillion in household debt debt

https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/hhdc.html

$4.17 trillion in commercial real estate debt

https://www.wsj.com/articles/real-es...est-1540296001

$9 trillion non-financial corporate debt

https://www.actionforex.com/contribu...emains-steady/

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/20/the-...f-u-s-gdp.html
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Old 12-08-2018, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,228 posts, read 18,119,191 times
Reputation: 21635
Trump gave the military industrial complex more money than they even asked for, he also slashed the tax rate for the nations
1%er's.

Enjoy your ill gotten gains folks, because a crash is coming, and it's gonna take a while to recover when it gets here.. The 1%er's won't be bothered too much by it, they have the Republican Party looking out for them.
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 2,787,052 times
Reputation: 1740
It's all fake money, anyway.

REPUDIATE THE NATIONAL DEBT
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,476 posts, read 15,455,344 times
Reputation: 14228
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeldor View Post
It's all fake money, anyway.

REPUDIATE THE NATIONAL DEBT
Quote:
However you approach the national debt, it is unsustainable. Austrian economist Michael Suede approaches it by holding the debt up against America’s gross domestic product (GDP). He writes,

Presently, the U.S. government is spending $6.3 trillion annually. Total state spending accounts for roughly 40% of U.S. GDP.… In other words, 40% of the U.S. economy exists to serve the purposes of war, imprisonment, welfare entitlements, bureaucrat salaries, regulatory bodies, subsidized housing and subsidized industry.
You either laugh or cry...or both...after reading that. And if you read that and still believe in sustaining the Statist model you're either a sadist or insane...or both.
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
18,048 posts, read 6,795,120 times
Reputation: 12899
I know it's popular to bash high debt levels, but the reality is, developed nations are developed in large part BECAUSE they have high levels of debt - particularly real estate debt.

In 3rd World nations, typically they don't have things like 30-year mortgages, or at least things like that are hard to get, and as a result, people commonly build their own houses, resulting in residential neighborhoods that look like this. Typically in places like that, debt levels (at least personal debt like mortgages, car loans and credit cards) are low, but that means people don't have the money to buy a nice house. So they buy a bare plot of land (which is usually cheap) and then go out and start buying cinder blocks and start building their own house themselves. That's why typical neighborhoods in developing nations tend to look so crappy. It's all very "do it yourself."

In developed nations, debt/credit is much more easily available, and as a result, people can buy things they otherwise wouldn't be able to without taking out a loan. Places like this would simply not exist remotely on the scale that it does without the widespread availability of credit. If people in the US did not take on so much debt, the US would look more like Brazil.
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:10 AM
 
28,120 posts, read 9,949,017 times
Reputation: 15201
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
I know it's popular to bash high debt levels, but the reality is, developed nations are developed in large part BECAUSE they have high levels of debt - particularly real estate debt.

In 3rd World nations, typically they don't have things like 30-year mortgages, or at least things like that are hard to get, and as a result, people commonly build their own houses, resulting in residential neighborhoods that look like this. Typically in places like that, debt levels (at least personal debt like mortgages, car loans and credit cards) are low, but that means people don't have the money to buy a nice house. So they buy a bare plot of land (which is usually cheap) and then go out and start buying cinder blocks and start building their own house themselves. That's why typical neighborhoods in developing nations tend to look so crappy. It's all very "do it yourself."

In developed nations, debt/credit is much more easily available, and as a result, people can buy things they otherwise wouldn't be able to without taking out a loan. Places like this would simply not exist remotely on the scale that it does without the widespread availability of credit. If people in the US did not take on so much debt, the US would look more like Brazil.
Im not sure I agree with the 30 yr mortgages being a good thing for the people...


When we first got married my wife and I bought a house, sale price was $94,500, we were first time home buyers so we qualified for no money down, and a decent rate (around 7% back in the 90s). Our monthly payment was $870...if we had made our payment each month, at the end of 30 yrs, we would have paid around $315K...for a $95K house!!!! Im not skilled in investments, but that doesnt seem like a very good investment!
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:34 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
26,441 posts, read 15,051,679 times
Reputation: 22757
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Im not sure I agree with the 30 yr mortgages being a good thing for the people...


When we first got married my wife and I bought a house, sale price was $94,500, we were first time home buyers so we qualified for no money down, and a decent rate (around 7% back in the 90s). Our monthly payment was $870...if we had made our payment each month, at the end of 30 yrs, we would have paid around $315K...for a $95K house!!!! Im not skilled in investments, but that doesnt seem like a very good investment!
You would also need to subtract the cost of rental and the appreciation of the house and calculate any tax savings on owning the house and add the money you put into it to see a true picture of owning versus renting (in the same location). If multiple locations, you could need to calculate the buys and sell costs and factor that in. In most scenarios, I believe the break even point of buying over renting is about 5 years, after which, the advantages of owning start to trump renting.

Getting back to the thread topic, I somewhat agree with OP that debt is to some extent fueling the economy and at some point, you have to pay the piper. On the other hand, you also have to calculate the wealth and then you can subtract the debt to see the true picture.

Total US wealth exceeds $100 trillion now so those debts OP mentioned would be subtracted from this to come up with the net.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-net...ion-1528387386

Last edited by Tall Traveler; 12-09-2018 at 01:45 AM..
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Old 12-09-2018, 05:17 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
21,323 posts, read 8,709,474 times
Reputation: 14313
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
Trump gave the military industrial complex more money than they even asked for, he also slashed the tax rate for the nations
1%er's.

Enjoy your ill gotten gains folks, because a crash is coming, and it's gonna take a while to recover when it gets here.. The 1%er's won't be bothered too much by it, they have the Republican Party looking out for them.
As Trump recently said, he won't be around when it needs to be payed back, so doesn't care.
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Old 12-09-2018, 10:58 AM
 
1,616 posts, read 479,282 times
Reputation: 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
You would also need to subtract the cost of rental and the appreciation of the house and calculate any tax savings on owning the house and add the money you put into it to see a true picture of owning versus renting (in the same location). If multiple locations, you could need to calculate the buys and sell costs and factor that in. In most scenarios, I believe the break even point of buying over renting is about 5 years, after which, the advantages of owning start to trump renting.
The value of houses going up is an illusion. People "invest" in property and is used as collateral in loans, that is why their prices apparently go up. But this is unnecessary in a healthy economy. Houses like any other goods depreciate with time. Rich people and speculators park money in property and that ruins it for everyday working people. That is why rent is so high and continue to rise. Spending half the working life of a person for rent is a hindrance to the economy, but it creates lots of wealth for owners of real states and banks. And so the accumulation of wealth in a few hands continue.

A house is a basic need, spending 30 to finally own your most basic need is madness. If prices continue to go up, in the future it will take 50 years to pay a house. The real price of houses should be a lot cheaper than what they are now and should go down with time. That is normal, but we live in abnormal times where a few clever ones screwing the rest are idolized.
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:48 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,882 posts, read 43,251,728 times
Reputation: 18489
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecrowds View Post
21.85 trillion in federal debt.

The older baby boomers are 73 and the youngest are 54. Which means the vast majority of baby boomers aren't even full retirement age, but all will be in the dozen years.

https://treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current

3.1 trillion state and local debt which doesn't include unfunded pensions

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SLGSDODNS

$13.51 trillion in household debt debt

https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/hhdc.html

$4.17 trillion in commercial real estate debt

https://www.wsj.com/articles/real-es...est-1540296001

$9 trillion non-financial corporate debt

https://www.actionforex.com/contribu...emains-steady/

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/20/the-...f-u-s-gdp.html





You forgot.... 104 Trillion in unfunded liabilities.(things voted for and not yet thought of how to pay for it)
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