Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This is the problem when people allow their political biases and wishful thinking get in the way of commonsense public health. The CDC, the Mayo Clinic, and dozens upon dozens of other researchers have confirmed the effectiveness of masks. But some guy in Escambia county thinks they're full of beans. So I guess he's right and they're wrong.
Either that or the guy is just too big a baby to wear a mask. I'm guessing that's the real truth here.
I don't know about the other guy, but this how it breaks down for me (I'm sure I've explained this here before). Do masks work, as in, do they lower transmission of anything and everything in the air? The answer is YES. How much they work depends on the mask you have and how effectively you wear it. But that's not the point, it's all about the actual risk. I don't think the socially distanced grocery store, or Lowe's, rises to the risk level needed to wear a mask. Church services? Ballgames? Sure. And of course, any private entity can always mandate masks and this is all a moot point.
But you or anybody else has no right to shame people by calling them selfish pricks (or whatever it was you said earlier in the thread, plus when you called the guy a baby above) without one, where there is no mandate and no requirement. Just like I have no right to call you a paranoid sheep because you do.
The funny thing is, we both think it in our heads, and that's the issue right there. As long as we never say anything out loud, we aren't affecting each other. But the issue is still there, so how do we bridge the gap? I don't know, but I'll never understand someone who is masked up complaining about someone who isn't. You are protected aren't you? I'm not within 6 feet of you. You do what you have to do to protect you and yours. That's the difference....your side complains, mine adapts and gets on with life. Are you unhappy about that?
I think Mississippi Alabama Line has hit upon a chord with me that has been bothering me and I hadn't articulated it myself: "You do what you have to do to protect you and yours. That's the difference....your side complains, mine adapts and gets on with life. Are you unhappy about that?"
I think I will/may wear a mask in places like Publix if I were to go into one during a weekday (rare) just because that will be a time when more elderly would be present. Effectively, appease their fears. Otherwise; I think I'll go maskless in most places.
On another note, the fact that a business or organization can mandate masks when the state (Alabama) is not mandating it. Play that scenario out with some other attributes that would qualify a person or disqualify a person from going into a business or organization. In the extremes; our country has suffered many ills with this state being one of the epicenters. I would personally rather have the state either mandate masks or drop it all together and not allow fiefdom rules to come into play. I fear the chaos that will ensue.
I don't know about the other guy, but this how it breaks down for me (I'm sure I've explained this here before). Do masks work, as in, do they lower transmission of anything and everything in the air? The answer is YES. How much they work depends on the mask you have and how effectively you wear it. But that's not the point, it's all about the actual risk. I don't think the socially distanced grocery store, or Lowe's, rises to the risk level needed to wear a mask. Church services? Ballgames? Sure. And of course, any private entity can always mandate masks and this is all a moot point.
But you or anybody else has no right to shame people by calling them selfish pricks (or whatever it was you said earlier in the thread, plus when you called the guy a baby above) without one, where there is no mandate and no requirement. Just like I have no right to call you a paranoid sheep because you do.
The funny thing is, we both think it in our heads, and that's the issue right there. As long as we never say anything out loud, we aren't affecting each other. But the issue is still there, so how do we bridge the gap? I don't know, but I'll never understand someone who is masked up complaining about someone who isn't. You are protected aren't you? I'm not within 6 feet of you. You do what you have to do to protect you and yours. That's the difference....your side complains, mine adapts and gets on with life. Are you unhappy about that?
That's where you're wrong. Let's take your argument out of the realm of Covid. Instead, let's take it into the realm of something else such as repeatedly driving under the influence.
If you know someone who brags about getting behind the wheel while blotto, would you shrug it off as his prerogative? Of course not. While it's not absolutely certain that that person would kill or injure himself or some other innocent person, the odds are certainly way higher than if he is sober.
Now, right up to the point that person doesn't run down a pedestrian or run into a phone pole, he hasn't done any damage to anyone. He might, like most people with a problem with booze, justify all day that he can handle his liquor, that he hasn't hurt anyone, etc. etc. But that doesn't mean that he isn't taking a much higher risk with either his life or--even more importantly--someone else's.
What's insidious about Covid is that you could literally have it for days without experiencing symptoms. You might even be a carrier for it and never experience any symptoms at all. So it's not like you get to say, "Oh, I have it. Guess I better mask up now." Nope. Lots of incidents, too many to count, where someone had Covid and just strolled into work or the grocery store or even to visit an elderly relative and then infected an entire slew of people. In fact, that's pretty much how all the infections have occurred.
And while wearing a mask does indeed provide you with a certain level of protection, your odds of getting the virus are still considerably higher if you encounter infected people who don't wear the mask than if you encounter a mask wearing individual who is unaware of being infected.
So when the poster in question says that he and his buddies aren't going to wear a mask, no way, or not get the vaccine, what they're saying is, "I don't care about the health of other people." And, just like the guy who has no issue with driving DUI, he'll cook up all kinds of rationalizations for self-centered behavior.
That being said, if you see an obviously wasted person trying to get into his car, do you blithely shrug your shoulders and say, "Well, that's his choice"? Of course not. We're not talking about freedom of speech here. We're not talking about religious faith. Instead, we're talking about having a duty to our fellow citizens to not spread a potential fatal disease. Because there are larger public safety issues in play. It's an incredibly simple measure that conscientious people can undertake, one that doesn't cost anyone anything to do. And yet some people refuse. Go figure.
That's where you're wrong. Let's take your argument out of the realm of Covid. Instead, let's take it into the realm of something else such as repeatedly driving under the influence.
If you know someone who brags about getting behind the wheel while blotto, would you shrug it off as his prerogative? Of course not. While it's not absolutely certain that that person would kill or injure himself or some other innocent person, the odds are certainly way higher than if he is sober.
Now, right up to the point that person doesn't run down a pedestrian or run into a phone pole, he hasn't done any damage to anyone. He might, like most people with a problem with booze, justify all day that he can handle his liquor, that he hasn't hurt anyone, etc. etc. But that doesn't mean that he isn't taking a much higher risk with either his life or--even more importantly--someone else's.
What's insidious about Covid is that you could literally have it for days without experiencing symptoms. You might even be a carrier for it and never experience any symptoms at all. So it's not like you get to say, "Oh, I have it. Guess I better mask up now." Nope. Lots of incidents, too many to count, where someone had Covid and just strolled into work or the grocery store or even to visit an elderly relative and then infected an entire slew of people. In fact, that's pretty much how all the infections have occurred.
And while wearing a mask does indeed provide you with a certain level of protection, your odds of getting the virus are still considerably higher if you encounter infected people who don't wear the mask than if you encounter a mask wearing individual who is unaware of being infected.
So when the poster in question says that he and his buddies aren't going to wear a mask, no way, or not get the vaccine, what they're saying is, "I don't care about the health of other people." And, just like the guy who has no issue with driving DUI, he'll cook up all kinds of rationalizations for self-centered behavior.
That being said, if you see an obviously wasted person trying to get into his car, do you blithely shrug your shoulders and say, "Well, that's his choice"? Of course not. We're not talking about freedom of speech here. We're not talking about religious faith. Instead, we're talking about having a duty to our fellow citizens to not spread a potential fatal disease. Because there are larger public safety issues in play. It's an incredibly simple measure that conscientious people can undertake, one that doesn't cost anyone anything to do. And yet some people refuse. Go figure.
A drunk driver killing someone is a real risk. Someone having COVID, going into a socially distanced grocery store and giving to a aware masked up person is near zero. The viral load just would not be enough to do anything.
If you want to go visit an elderly relative, wear masks if you feel the need. It's just reality. Stay home when sick, in all situations. It's not difficult.
I'm sorry man, but this assumed huge risk of COVID transmission through the air over 6' just isn't there. Don't let your guard down, and you won't catch it. If you want to live like that, it's fine. But others aren't going to.
Now, I am simply not accounting for stupid people. Some folks will get up in your space, some folks are just plain nasty, some folks will go out in public even when sick as a dog. I don't have the solution there. That's why I say protect yourself. It's like gun control, it only hurts good people, it doesn't affect bad people AT ALL.
On another note, the fact that a business or organization can mandate masks when the state (Alabama) is not mandating it. Play that scenario out with some other attributes that would qualify a person or disqualify a person from going into a business or organization. In the extremes; our country has suffered many ills with this state being one of the epicenters. I would personally rather have the state either mandate masks or drop it all together and not allow fiefdom rules to come into play. I fear the chaos that will ensue.
A drunk driver killing someone is a real risk. Someone having COVID, going into a socially distanced grocery store and giving to a aware masked up person is near zero. The viral load just would not be enough to do anything.
If you want to go visit an elderly relative, wear masks if you feel the need. It's just reality. Stay home when sick, in all situations. It's not difficult.
I'm sorry man, but this assumed huge risk of COVID transmission through the air over 6' just isn't there. Don't let your guard down, and you won't catch it. If you want to live like that, it's fine. But others aren't going to.
Now, I am simply not accounting for stupid people. Some folks will get up in your space, some folks are just plain nasty, some folks will go out in public even when sick as a dog. I don't have the solution there. That's why I say protect yourself. It's like gun control, it only hurts good people, it doesn't affect bad people AT ALL.
But I would argue two points:
1) How realistic is it that you maintain that 6' distance in every grocery store, church, office building, gas station or wherever? While the 6' guideline is a good one, it's not foolproof. Because, well, there are fools out there.
2) A person who has such arrogant contempt for even the fundamentals of disease transmission is not someone who likely gives a rip about it in the first place.
That's why we have the mask mandate in the first place. Because there's always those people who care about no one but themselves.
Covid isn't going anywhere, it won't be eradicated. It's going to be like the flu, if you are a higher risk person, you'll be required to get the vaccine every year.
That's why we have the mask mandate in the first place. Because there's always those people who care about no one but themselves.
We agree on this. Most rules are made for stupid people.
As long as you realize that it isn't me (Mr. Socially Distanced Random Guy in Walmart without a Mask) that is the problem, we can probably find common ground here. I did not go to big gatherings indoors this year. I wore a mask when mandated, but not when it wasn't. I stayed distanced, and always asked people's opinions before meeting with them, etc. Bottom line, I'm not a concern at all to people who are truly worried about the virus.
We agree on this. Most rules are made for stupid people.
As long as you realize that it isn't me (Mr. Socially Distanced Random Guy in Walmart without a Mask) that is the problem, we can probably find common ground here. I did not go to big gatherings indoors this year. I wore a mask when mandated, but not when it wasn't. I stayed distanced, and always asked people's opinions before meeting with them, etc. Bottom line, I'm not a concern at all to people who are truly worried about the virus.
Indeed, you are getting closer to a common ground. I have some quibbles, such as unmasked in a closed environment during peaks, but yes.
Masking is ALL about keeping the R rate to a minimum. Regrettably, it is NOT a panacea or 100% preventative. Masked or not, we all have been playing a game of odds. The battle to eradicate on a global scale was lost long ago, probably even before it started.
That NZ has been able to effectively keep the virus out speaks to the dangers of globalization and the need for humanity to return to pockets of isolation, such as occurred before the 1400s. These days, the vastness of space is the only real hope. This virus will be around on this planet from now on.
I consider it and the spread and reactions a test run. The pap that viruses always weaken when they mutate is designed to sooth the masses. The realities are that they mutate randomly, not purposefully. Consider that with a mutation like hemorrhagic fever (Ebola) coupled with the insidious nature of current Covid infections not being noticed for days or weeks, the death rate could be greater than that of the great plagues. As bad as the current death rate is, it still is less than the birth rate, and only a peripheral threat to humanity itself.
Once everyone has has the opportunity to get vaccinated, and with a 100% efficacy (preventing deaths in the vaccinated) only those in denial will sicken and die. The unmasked will do so first. There is recognition that deaths in deniers could change the political landscape and demographics. When leaders such as Mitch M. and others stress that all males in the party should get vaccinated, there is concern. It can be hard to fight for independence and smaller government when dead.
What baffles me are the folks I see from church who take the family out to eat on Sunday and none of them wear masks. Doesn't the Bible teach us to respect authority and the laws of the state? I wonder how these parents will react in a few years when the kids start refusing to follow the rules. The kids can simply remind the parents that they set the precedent that it's ok to disobey a rule when it's inconvenient or annoying. I guess "law and order" only applies to everybody else.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
