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Whatever you may think of the guy, at least either learn about him, or be honest. He graduated Emory with a Bachelors in History and Anthropology, and was offered a membership of the Phi Beta Kappa society as a junior (he declined), which means he was certainly not stupid in every respect. Perhaps not realistic, or practical, but not "stupid" without exception.
With full disclosure I will state that education is not necessarily any indication of earth shattering intelligence especially with humanities courses. However there is a much higher frequency of higher intelligence associated with people who have received a qualification that is higher than a GED, than those who have not, and being offered a membership at a nationally recognized honors society does require slightly more intellectual horsepower than only being able to drool in your oatmeal.
And this did what for him in the wilderness????? Book smart and NO common sense..... His 'intelligence' didn't save him and he probably still drooled in his cereal, because he was stupid to the ways of the wild.
Last edited by Alaskapat528; 08-28-2011 at 02:08 PM..
He obviously didn't know enough to do the right research, ask the right people, or he'd have had salt with which to jerk meat, known better than to store raw food in plastic bags long term, get trapped by flood waters, etc. his general experience level was about that of an urban kid of 16, or a farm boy of 14, I'd say, who haven't read any books on the required subjects. The book seemed to think that he poisoned himself with fungi that grew on the wild potatoes that he sealed up in plastic bags.
The book seemed to think that he poisoned himself with fungi that grew on the wild potatoes that he sealed up in plastic bags.
As far as I'm aware, that idea was discredited, but Jon Krakauer (not widely known for allowing honesty to get in the way of a good story) continued to promote it, as well as the claim that he didn't have a map of any kind. More than likely he just starved to death over time because he couldn't obtain enough food.
And again, I really don't understand what it is about him that makes some people just about hyperventilate. I guess it makes them feel better about themselves to bash some dead kid who never asked to be made famous. Whatever.
And again, I really don't understand what it is about him that makes some people just about hyperventilate. I guess it makes them feel better about themselves to bash some dead kid who never asked to be made famous. Whatever.
Agree. I'm sure there are enough Alaskans who've surrendered their lives to the elements. Seems like everyday there's a plane crash in Alaska. Those who live there should be aware of the dangers and not go crashing into mountains or other planes all the time.
I wonder how many born and bred dead Alaskan carcasses are shattered throughout the state because they were ignorant of the dangers of Alaska's climate and/or creatures. Or just flat out ill prepared.
Leave that type stuff to the lower 48 morons. Right? You betcha.
And this did what for him in the wilderness????? Book smart and NO common sense..... His 'intelligence' didn't save him and he probably still drooled in his cereal, because he was stupid to the ways of the wild.
Hey I'm not defending what he did... I personally think he must have tried to die where and when he did, but that's an entirely different story.
All I'm saying is that the statement that...
Quote:
he was stupid in every respect, without exception.
Is factually incorrect.
Receiving a degree in anything, and being offered to join an honors society, proves that McCandless could not be "Stupid in every respect, without exception". If that's being stupid in every respect, without exception; then I'm sure a bunch of people wish they were so stupid at one time or another, pretty much anyone just after they learned they flunked out of college to name but one group. He did act stupidly deciding to live where he did given his abilities, but the act itself was not stupid; someone with the skills and knowledge could have easily survived there, nor was he stupid in "every respect, without exception" as shown.
Was he arrogant, most likely, was he over confident, for sure, did he bite off more than he could chew, definitely (and as I mentioned that may have been his overall purpose either consciously or not). If that's the definition of stupid, then I'd bet dollars to donuts there isn't a person on City-Data that isn't guilty at some time of being that stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by giney12
He obviously didn't know enough to do the right research, ask the right people, or he'd have had salt with which to jerk meat
LOL... You're from the lower 48 aren't you?
You don't need salt to air dry moose in the interior we've got trace humidity most of the time. Just cut thin strips put it on a rack like a pup tent, and light a small green stripped alder or other wood (don't use spruce) fire underneath it to keep the flies away and let it air dry (don't make the fire too big, you're not trying to cook it, or smoke it, your drying it, and you don't want to start any wildfires either). Or you can chuck the guts about 100 yards away and let the flies feast and breed on them in preference to a fire, while your meat air/sun dries. It's been done this way for centuries, there isn't a lot of locally available salt here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by giney12
The book seemed to think that he poisoned himself with fungi that grew on the wild potatoes that he sealed up in plastic bags.
That was disproven in the autopsy, no toxins were found in his system at the time of death. A UAF toxicologist went through his food supply and stated he'd eat it himself. The possible culprit for toxins was Bear root thought to be mistakenly harvested as Alaskan Carrot (Indian Potato), or a mould that grows on the seeds, but the autopsy found no toxins at all, and Bear Root gives you a bad case of the trots, but won't kill you. However the toxicology said... nope, it was Alaskan Carrot, but it was a bad time of year to harvest it, but a good time of year to get it right, and there was no mould to create an alkaloid either.
Whatever you may think of the guy, at least either learn about him, or be honest. He graduated Emory with a Bachelors in History and Anthropology, and was offered a membership of the Phi Beta Kappa society as a junior (he declined), which means he was certainly not stupid in every respect. Perhaps not realistic, or practical, but not "stupid" without exception.
With full disclosure I will state that education is not necessarily any indication of earth shattering intelligence especially with humanities courses. However there is a much higher frequency of higher intelligence associated with people who have received a qualification that is higher than a GED, than those who have not, and being offered a membership at a nationally recognized honors society does require slightly more intellectual horsepower than only being able to drool in your oatmeal.
All that means is that he did well at school, but Alaska was the real world, and he was not intelligent enough to pay attention to what Alaskans were trying to tell him.
Agree. I'm sure there are enough Alaskans who've surrendered their lives to the elements. Seems like everyday there's a plane crash in Alaska. Those who live there should be aware of the dangers and not go crashing into mountains or other planes all the time.
I wonder how many born and bred dead Alaskan carcasses are shattered throughout the state because they were ignorant of the dangers of Alaska's climate and/or creatures. Or just flat out ill prepared.
Leave that type stuff to the lower 48 morons. Right? You betcha.
Well, we don't have people from the lower-48 on pilgrimages to a bus where an Alaska moron starved to death, nor to an island where another Alaska moron feed himself and his girlfriend to the bears
What we have are highly intelligent people from the lower-48 and overseas on pilgrimages trying to relive the experiences of of other highly intelligent and non-Alaska morons from the lower-48 and overseas. Right?
I place the fault on the persons who wrote the books about these two morons, and the people who follow the steps taken by the subjects in the books.
hummmm what we call that here is "an educated idiot"....not a lick of common sense nor touch with reality for social or survival skills....most "educated and received qualification" will not survive in a life or death situation due to this....
I could have said it better myself.
McCandless is a perfect example of those city critters that are so far removed from reality that they would starve to death if their meat did not come cellophane-wrapped from the grocery store.
All those humanities courses and all that research, yet he could not be bothered to pick up a book and read up on Alaska's flora and fauna, or even read a map.
I am not sure which is more pathetic, McCandless or those attempting to excuse and glorify his abject stupidity.
Hey I'm not defending what he did... I personally think he must have tried to die where and when he did, but that's an entirely different story.
All I'm saying is that the statement that...
Is factually incorrect.
Receiving a degree in anything, and being offered to join an honors society, proves that McCandless could not be "Stupid in every respect, without exception". If that's being stupid in every respect, without exception; then I'm sure a bunch of people wish they were so stupid at one time or another, pretty much anyone just after they learned they flunked out of college to name but one group. He did act stupidly deciding to live where he did given his abilities, but the act itself was not stupid; someone with the skills and knowledge could have easily survived there, nor was he stupid in "every respect, without exception" as shown.
Was he arrogant, most likely, was he over confident, for sure, did he bite off more than he could chew, definitely (and as I mentioned that may have been his overall purpose either consciously or not). If that's the definition of stupid, then I'd bet dollars to donuts there isn't a person on City-Data that isn't guilty at some time of being that stupid.
LOL... You're from the lower 48 aren't you?
You don't need salt to air dry moose in the interior we've got trace humidity most of the time. Just cut thin strips put it on a rack like a pup tent, and light a small green stripped alder or other wood (don't use spruce) fire underneath it to keep the flies away and let it air dry (don't make the fire too big, you're not trying to cook it, or smoke it, your drying it, and you don't want to start any wildfires either). Or you can chuck the guts about 100 yards away and let the flies feast and breed on them in preference to a fire, while your meat air/sun dries. It's been done this way for centuries, there isn't a lot of locally available salt here.
That was disproven in the autopsy, no toxins were found in his system at the time of death. A UAF toxicologist went through his food supply and stated he'd eat it himself. The possible culprit for toxins was Bear root thought to be mistakenly harvested as Alaskan Carrot (Indian Potato), or a mould that grows on the seeds, but the autopsy found no toxins at all, and Bear Root gives you a bad case of the trots, but won't kill you. However the toxicology said... nope, it was Alaskan Carrot, but it was a bad time of year to harvest it, but a good time of year to get it right, and there was no mould to create an alkaloid either.
McCandles was indeed "stupid in every respect, without exception." What good did taking all those humanity courses do him in rural Alaska (he never even made it off the road system, so it certainly was not "wilderness" by any stretch of the imagination). He never bothered to apply any of those skills toward his current endeavors. He did absolutely no research, listened to no advice, and did not even bother to read a map.
If you were going to try to live off the land in the Alaska bush, do you really think a degree in history or anthropology is an intelligent choice?
When I moved to Alaska I had similar plans to McCandless. I was intending to live off the land for one year (just 365 days), just to see if I could. Unlike McCandles, I saved and planned for just over two years. I read every book on Alaska I could get my hands on, I bought USGS topo maps, got copies of the fish and game regulations, and called people living in Talkeetna to talk about the flora and fauna. I also tracked the weather in the area for just over a year. When I finally made the move, I hauled just over a ton of goods with me, and had $10,000 in cash to buy more of what I needed after I arrived.
Even after all that planning, I knew that there where certain milestones that had to be met or my very survival would be at risk. That included having a garden planted no later than June 15th, and my shelter built no later than October 1st. If either of these milestones were missed, my only option was to fall back on Plan B - leave the bush, get a job, and a place to live.
Also unlike McCandless, I have been an avid hunter since I was 8 years old when my father first took me hunting. I have hunted all over California, Nebraska, South Dakota, and Wyoming, from quail to elk and everything in between. I have spent months in the back-country of Yellowstone and Glacier National Park, and know how to safely camp in bear country.
My biggest mistake was hauling more than I needed from Los Angeles to Alaska. My second biggest mistake was underestimating the density of the foliage. In the end, I applied a little common sense and realized that I needed more preparation. I would not have been able to get all the food and equipment I brought off the river by hand in just one summer. Therefore, I fell back on Plan B even before reaching the first milestone.
This is why I can stand behind my statement that McCandles was indeed "stupid in every respect, without exception."
Well, we don't have people from the lower-48 on pilgrimages to a bus where an Alaska moron starved to death, nor to an island where another Alaska moron feed himself and his girlfriend to the bears
What we have are highly intelligent people from the lower-48 and overseas on pilgrimages trying to relive the experiences of of other highly intelligent and non-Alaska morons from the lower-48 and overseas. Right?
I place the fault on the persons who wrote the books about these two morons, and the people who follow the steps taken by the subjects in the books.
I am in complete agreement. I wanted to see if I had the same capability and necessary skills to survive like Dick Proenneke. As it turned out, I did not. But I certainly had no intention of failing to the point of death. It was enough for me to know that I was not yet prepared for the task.
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His 'intelligence' didn't save him and he probably still drooled in his cereal, because he was stupid to the ways of the wild.
