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I don't think gobrien was saying anything you weren't saying, there...other than not every occupier is automatically wanting to have entitlements bestowed upon them. I've seen videos where occupiers were focused on investigating the fraudulent practices of certain banks involved in the housing crisis (which, yes, is directly tied to government influence)...that doesn't seem very entitle-y. I don't think that student loans should be exempt from bankruptcy, either, especially not when education has been promoted and subsidized by our government. Since our government (theoretically representing We the People) has skewed reality in order to push more people into seeking higher education at higher costs, then those people shouldn't be penalized forever for, in effect, falling for a con. Yes they share some culpability but not all of it.
And some of the trash left behind was due to police action, rather than the protesters themselves. Such as the Occupy LA incident last December. Just something to think about. Not everyone is the stereotype that they're portrayed as.
The videos you've seen were staged by a freindly media and a few of the leaders of one or two of the groups to try to gain support for a ridiculous cause. When you see the real videos of actual occupiers they were mostly clueless students looking for a hand out for their loans. I am not including the homeless, the rapists and the hardcore socialist/communist as actual occupier even though they did make up a fair percentage of them.
As for these poor students being held responible for their loans; they made their choices, they chose what they studied and signed for the loans. Why should anyone else be held responsible for their decisions. Why do you feel someone who worked all their lives and never went to college should pay extra taxes for these spoiled little brats? At what point do you think people should take responsibility for themselves? Do you remember the young occuper who cried broke and his parents were being evicted? Well they found out he was a rich kid whose parents were doctors and in no danger of losing their home.
The last point you made I think shows where your mindset is. Do you honestly believe the police made the mess in those parks? You honestly believe they came in with garbage to make them look bad? I don't know, I think you really should sit back and think about where you are getting these peices of info and wonder about if they are real or blatant propaganda?
The videos you've seen were staged by a freindly media and a few of the leaders of one or two of the groups to try to gain support for a ridiculous cause. When you see the real videos of actual occupiers they were mostly clueless students looking for a hand out for their loans. I am not including the homeless, the rapists and the hardcore socialist/communist as actual occupier even though they did make up a fair percentage of them.
As for these poor students being held responible for their loans; they made their choices, they chose what they studied and signed for the loans. Why should anyone else be held responsible for their decisions. Why do you feel someone who worked all their lives and never went to college should pay extra taxes for these spoiled little brats? At what point do you think people should take responsibility for themselves? Do you remember the young occuper who cried broke and his parents were being evicted? Well they found out he was a rich kid whose parents were doctors and in no danger of losing their home.
The last point you made I think shows where your mindset is. Do you honestly believe the police made the mess in those parks? You honestly believe they came in with garbage to make them look bad? I don't know, I think you really should sit back and think about where you are getting these peices of info and wonder about if they are real or blatant propaganda?
Again I ask, what have they accomplished?
The videos I've seen may have been staged. I know there were some 'real' Ron Paul people (there may have been other groups, but the only ones I know of for sure are the RP ones) who joined with Occupy in order to make their voices heard as well; you may agree or disagree with that platform but one thing they are NOT is entitlement supporters. Most of the Occupiers may be socialist-leaning, but honestly they have the right to be so. It's (allegedly) a free country. I personally don't think that taxpayers should have to pay for other peoples' kids to go to college, but a good way to stop that is to STOP GIVING THOSE LOANS IN THE FIRST PLACE. Hence, no more defaulting on the loans. Maybe education costs would come down a bit at that point, as the colleges scrambled to get more people to fill up their classrooms while being unable to rely on the taxpayers to fill their wallets.
When you say that the students made their choices, signed for their loans, so they should be responsible for them...how does that make them any more culpable than a person who signed for a mortgage? I can file for bankruptcy...I can file for bankruptcy and KEEP MY HOUSE....and yet a student, a kid who doesn't necessarily have the life experience to tell him that he's being sold a bunch of pie in the sky, is unable to get out of his crushing debt through the same means? I'm not saying to subsidize their loans, or to let them off scot-free, but bankruptcy is a legitimate means to deal with people who can't afford their debt. I find it reprehensible that there is this arbitrary proclamation that homeowners or business owners deserve more leniency in regards to bankruptcy than students do, just because of the type of loan they took out. That's nuts.
As for my last point, did you read the link I put up? Here's the applicable quote -
Quote:
As we sat there, encircled, a separate team of LAPD officers used knives to slice open every personal tent in the park. They forcibly removed anyone sleeping inside, and then yanked out and destroyed any personal property inside those tents, scattering the contents across the park. They then did the same with the communal property of the Occupy LA movement. For example, I watched as the LAPD destroyed a pop-up canopy tent that, until that moment, had been serving as Occupy LA’s First Aid and Wellness tent, in which volunteer health professionals gave free medical care to absolutely anyone who requested it. As it happens, my family had personally contributed that exact canopy tent to Occupy LA, at a cost of several hundred of my family’s dollars. As I watched, the LAPD sliced that canopy tent to shreds, broke the telescoping poles into pieces and scattered the detritus across the park. Note that these were the objects described in subsequent mainstream press reports as “30 tons of garbage” that was “abandoned” by Occupy LA: personal property forcibly stolen from us, destroyed in front of our eyes and then left for maintenance workers to dispose of while we were sent to prison.
Not quite the same thing as 'they (police) came in with garbage to make them look bad'. I read a lot, and I think about what I read. I don't trust anything...and it's possible that this accounting was exaggerated or fabricated in some way, but after seeing footage and other accounts of so much police brutality in connection to Occupy, I'm inclined to believe it. There are some things that I would need more corroboration for, but this? Nah. This seems pretty much on par with reality.
The videos you've seen were staged by a freindly media and a few of the leaders of one or two of the groups to try to gain support for a ridiculous cause. When you see the real videos of actual occupiers they were mostly clueless students looking for a hand out for their loans. I am not including the homeless, the rapists and the hardcore socialist/communist as actual occupier even though they did make up a fair percentage of them.
As for these poor students being held responible for their loans; they made their choices, they chose what they studied and signed for the loans. Why should anyone else be held responsible for their decisions. Why do you feel someone who worked all their lives and never went to college should pay extra taxes for these spoiled little brats? At what point do you think people should take responsibility for themselves? Do you remember the young occuper who cried broke and his parents were being evicted? Well they found out he was a rich kid whose parents were doctors and in no danger of losing their home.
The last point you made I think shows where your mindset is. Do you honestly believe the police made the mess in those parks? You honestly believe they came in with garbage to make them look bad? I don't know, I think you really should sit back and think about where you are getting these peices of info and wonder about if they are real or blatant propaganda?
Again I ask, what have they accomplished?
I'm one of those spoiled little brats, Pat. You are correct, I made the choice to take the loans (they were for grad school, my other schooling has been paid off forever), but don't people who run up thousands of dollars on credit cards also choose to do so? Why should they be able to turn to bankruptcy when I cannot?
These kids have played by the rules, they've gone out and gotten the education (at ever-increasing prices that far outstrip inflation) they were told would open doors, only to find that there a precious few doors out there, and lots of people competing for them. Many of the ones who find jobs are still woefully underemployed. At the age when their parents were dreaming of buying a home, many cannot even afford an apartment. It's not good for them, it's not good for the parents with whom they must live, and it's not good for the country.
For the first time, downward mobility is becoming the norm in America, and crushing student debt is part of the reason.
P.S. I am paying my loans off, BTW, finally. I just hope the interest on them does not increase. It is hard enough as it is.
The videos I've seen may have been staged. I know there were some 'real' Ron Paul people (there may have been other groups, but the only ones I know of for sure are the RP ones) who joined with Occupy in order to make their voices heard as well; you may agree or disagree with that platform but one thing they are NOT is entitlement supporters.
You are correct. I know an Occupier, or at least an Occupy sympathizer (frankly, the only one I know here, as Occupy is not terribly active in Anchorage) who is a very devoted supporter of Ron Paul.
I do not agree with most of Mr. Paul's positions, but I like him. He's certainly the only one of this election cycle's Republican candidates I felt was not out to screw the little guy so fat cats could get fatter.
We had a peaceful Occupy demonstration in Fairbanks all winter.
Bottom line, as Americans don't we have the right to assemble and protest? I wasn't there at any of them, but I believe rights were infringed upon. You don't see those Westboro church morons getting pepper sprayed.
I support Occupy Wall Street. I've paid my way through college and never taken out student loans, even though it's taking me many more years to do it this way.
I think it's kind of absurd to categorize everyone in OWS as looking for handouts. I'm not asking my government for money, I'm asking my government to do its damn job. Prosecute the criminals responsible for the economic conditions which lead to this recession. Fix the welfare system so it acts as a springboard to get people back on their feet rather than enabling them to remain in poverty. Close tax loopholes and simplify the tax code- why in the world should I, a full time healthcare worker and part time student living in a 400 square foot apartment, pay a higher tax rate than billionaires with three homes who hide their money in Swedish bank accounts and vacation in the tropics while I get vomited on by chronic inebriates in the emergency room who are shuttled between the jail and the hospital because our system is so messed up that no one has any clue what to do with them?
Opposing OWS is like covering your ears and eyes and yelling "la la la, I can't hear you!" It is full denial of the corruption and greed that has poisoned our government and sold our way of life to the highest bidder.
Who was it that said, "dissent is the highest form of patriotism"?
If everyone would band together and OCCUPY the White House - in record numbers of peaceful demonstration we might get some much needed results from the most transparent administration in the history of the United States of America - see? Everything is the exact opposite of what Obitler claims!
Health Care won't add one dime to the deficit - 1.76 TRILLION but not a dime more!!
If everyone would band together and OCCUPY the White House - in record numbers of peaceful demonstration we might get some much needed results from the most transparent administration in the history of the United States of America - see? Everything is the exact opposite of what Obitler claims!
Health Care won't add one dime to the deficit - 1.76 TRILLION but not a dime more!!
Obitler? Who is that?
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