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Old 05-26-2018, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Southern California
29,266 posts, read 16,791,389 times
Reputation: 18910

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and not cholesterol as I've been thinking and saying for a long time. Have been doing a lot of searches and found MANY links about this Inflammation issue.

https://www.docsopinion.com/2013/05/...heart-disease/

Cholesterol is Not the Problem in Heart Disease, This Is |

https://www.drsinatra.com/inflammati...heart-disease/

Cholesterol Isn't the Problem in Heart Disease...Inflammation Is! - The Science Of Eating

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...10260814001173

I could fill pages of links on this Inflammation and Heart Disease topic.
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Early America
3,125 posts, read 2,077,588 times
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Chronic inflammation is believed to be at the root of all or most diseases and conditions. Look up the inflammation theory of disease.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsl...ory_of_disease

The two major things to change and tweak until you find the right combination are diet and lifestyle. This doesn't mean that a person necessarily has a bad diet or lifestyle. They just aren't right for that individual. For example, a person who eats a large amount of fruits and vegetables might think he is doing the right thing but he could be unwittingly causing his chronic inflammation that triggered any number of diseases or conditions. Fruits and some vegetables are high in fructose. Fructose causes inflammation. You can't assume anything. You have to test it.
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,418,445 times
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I know...inflammation!!
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Old 05-27-2018, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,131 posts, read 41,338,442 times
Reputation: 45226
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
and not cholesterol as I've been thinking and saying for a long time. Have been doing a lot of searches and found MANY links about this Inflammation issue.

https://www.docsopinion.com/2013/05/...heart-disease/

Cholesterol is Not the Problem in Heart Disease, This Is |

https://www.drsinatra.com/inflammati...heart-disease/

Cholesterol Isn't the Problem in Heart Disease...Inflammation Is! - The Science Of Eating

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...10260814001173

I could fill pages of links on this Inflammation and Heart Disease topic.
Did you read your links? They do not say what you seem to think they do.

Deposition of LDL leads to inflammation:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...10260814001173

"LDL, which may be modified by oxidation, glycation (in diabetes), aggregation, association with proteoglycans, or incorporation into immune complexes, is a major cause of injury to the endothelium and underlying smooth muscle. When LDL particles become trapped in an artery, they can undergo progressive oxidation and be internalized by macrophages by means of the scavenger receptors on the surfaces of these cells."

https://www.docsopinion.com/2013/05/...heart-disease/

"Cholesterol crystals are needle like structures that are found in atherosclerotic plaques. The role of these crystals in the atherosclerotic process is unknown. It has been proposed that cholesterol crystals may play a central role in initiating inflammation in atherosclerosis."

"Whether inhibition of inflammation will prevent heart disease, or improve prognosis in those with known disease, is currently a major unresolved issue in clinical care."

More on cholesterol crystals:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0428142300.htm

"'We've found that, given a certain type of nutrition, cholesterol crystals are deposited in the arterial walls after a relatively short time,' says Dr Düwell. 'These crystals are then taken up by the immune system's scavenger cells. ... The unhealthy food results in the accumulation of cholesterol crystals that activate an "inflammasome" complex within the scavenger cells.'"

A chain erection results as a chemical cascade pulls more inflammatory cells into the atherosclerotic blood vessel.

Cholesterol is Not the Problem in Heart Disease, This Is |

The article describes use of a potent immune suppressant drug with far more serious side effects than statins, which also have an anti-inflammatory effect.

https://www.drsinatra.com/inflammati...heart-disease/

Dr. Sinatra has cause and effect reversed. He notes that the study he is discussing found that "not only was elevated CRP the best indicator of risk, women with high LDL and high CRP were also at the MOST risk."

Then he says, "This is because inflammation is prompting the LDL to oxidize and form into plaque, rather than circulate freely, which explains the close connection between inflammation and heart disease."

That is false. It is not the inflammation that causes LDL to oxidize, it is the oxidized LDL that causes the inflammation, exactly what your other links are saying.

Cholesterol Isn't the Problem in Heart Disease...Inflammation Is! - The Science Of Eating

Mercola also has it backward. He says, "It is the inflammatory process in your body that first triggers an injury to your arterial walls. No matter how low your cholesterol numbers go, your body will still use the cholesterol it has to repair the arterial wall." That is not correct. The inflammatory process is a response to the injury to the arterial wall, not a trigger. Such injuries can be mechanical (such as turbulent blood flow, common where arteries branch), chemical (such as changes due to substances in tobacco and elevated blood sugar), trans fats (by increasing LDL and lowering HDL), and hypertension. Deposition of cholesterol does not "repair" the vessel. It is incorporated into the atherosclerotic plaque from the beginning of the process.


Cholesterol deposition comes first, then inflammation. Both are important in creating atherosclerosis. Statins treat both.
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Old 05-27-2018, 04:39 PM
 
3,085 posts, read 1,554,763 times
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Excellent article from the cardiac foundation of Canada on inflammation and heart disease. C reactive protein is a far better indicator of risk of heart attack/stroke than cholestrol. And one of the most effective treatments is aspirin. Did You Know... That Inflammation Might be the Real Cause of Heart Attacks?

For years dentists/periodontists have been saying inflammation aka gum disease, is the real culprit in heart disease.

There is another fascinating article about whether inflammation is at the root of heart disease and also cancer. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/m...on-cancer.html

Last edited by Williepaws; 05-27-2018 at 04:59 PM.. Reason: More info
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Old 05-27-2018, 04:59 PM
 
7,243 posts, read 4,563,189 times
Reputation: 11941
Nope. Every single thing that they can't really explain they now blame on "inflammation"

Not buying it.

This is what I am buying - Myogenic Theory of Myocardial Infarction: A New Look at Heart Attacks

The Myogentic theory of heart attack.

Quote:
Interestingly, in the 1940s and 1950s, when the coronary blockage theory was first proposed, the majority of cardiologists did not accept it. They pointed out that while coronary arteries are not the only arteries to have plaque, they are the only tissue to suffer from decreased blood flow during a myocardial infarction. There are no reports of a spleen attack or a kidney attack, yet the arteries feeding these organs also get plaque buildup.
This theory says that the heart is both (and only) an organ and a muscle. Just like any muscle if it doesn't get what nutrients and exercise it needs it will start to fail. This process causes cells to slough off the heart at the same time the heart is getting weak. This is why there are build ups near the heart. BUT THEY AREN"T THE CAUSE OF A HEART Attack.

Quote:
You may be familiar with this process if you exercise regularly. It's what happens in your leg muscles when you run too far or too hard. The anaerobic fermentation produces lactic acid which collects in the muscle tissues. Resting your leg muscles allows the lactic acid to be metabolized, and the pain and stiffness eventually go away. But the heart, unlike your leg muscles, cannot rest, and the lactic acid builds up in the heart muscle. If this acidic condition is left untreated, it leads to the death of the heart cells, and a heart attack ensues.
So basically a heart attack is due to a weakened heart.

So how can you make sure your heart has what it needs?

Quote:
It turns out that there are simple, inexpensive and very effective compounds that effectively prevent lactic acidosis in the heart tissues. These medicines have been known for centuries as cardiotonics and have been used for treating heart disease in every traditional medical system in the world.
And what does your body naturally make these compounds out of?

Quote:
The amazing thing is that these compounds are exact chemical copies of hormones made by our adrenal glands. And our adrenal glands produce these cardiotonics out of...cholesterol!
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Old 05-27-2018, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,131 posts, read 41,338,442 times
Reputation: 45226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Williepaws View Post
Excellent article from the cardiac foundation of Canada on inflammation and heart disease. C reactive protein is a far better indicator of risk of heart attack/stroke than cholestrol. And one of the most effective treatments is aspirin. Did You Know... That Inflammation Might be the Real Cause of Heart Attacks?

For years dentists/periodontists have been saying inflammation aka gum disease, is the real culprit in heart disease.

There is another fascinating article about whether inflammation is at the root of heart disease and also cancer. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/m...on-cancer.html
Your article says the same thing I said before:

Did You Know... That Inflammation Might be the Real Cause of Heart Attacks?

"Although we have declared war on bad cholesterol, this premise overlooks the body’s critical need for low density lipoproteins and the fact that LDL only turns bad when free radicals oxidize it which essentially destabilizes it. Once oxidized the tiny particles of cholesterol become sticky and attach to the artery wall which starts an inflammatory cascade that leads to heart attack causing blood clots."

The benefit of aspirin is that it makes platelets less sticky and helps to prevent clots from forming on areas of plaque.

Gum disease and the heart:

https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/...heart-health#1

"While bacteria likely play a role in dental heart health, doctors say your lifestyle choices are a factor, too.

'People with bad periodontal disease tend to have bad health habits in general,' Boyden says. 'They aren't taking care of themselves. Many are smokers. They probably aren't exercising; they may not be eating well. We know all of those things are some of the strongest predictors of heart disease.'"

Diabetics may also have gum disease, and diabetes is a risk factor for atherosclerosis.

Last edited by suzy_q2010; 05-27-2018 at 06:31 PM..
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Old 05-27-2018, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,131 posts, read 41,338,442 times
Reputation: 45226
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilyFoxSeaton View Post
Nope. Every single thing that they can't really explain they now blame on "inflammation"

Not buying it.

This is what I am buying - Myogenic Theory of Myocardial Infarction: A New Look at Heart Attacks

The Myogentic theory of heart attack.

This theory says that the heart is both (and only) an organ and a muscle. Just like any muscle if it doesn't get what nutrients and exercise it needs it will start to fail. This process causes cells to slough off the heart at the same time the heart is getting weak. This is why there are build ups near the heart. BUT THEY AREN"T THE CAUSE OF A HEART Attack.

So basically a heart attack is due to a weakened heart.

So how can you make sure your heart has what it needs?

And what does your body naturally make these compounds out of?
Myocardial infarction is due to blockage of a coronary artery. It literally deprives the heart of all nutrients, especially oxygen, by cutting off blood flow to the area of muscle supplied by the blocked artery. There are no "cells to slough off the heart" and no "build ups near the heart". If the heart muscle does not have blood flow restored, it dies. Heart bypass surgery or stents in affected arteries restore blood flow.

Your article states, "There are no reports of a spleen attack or a kidney attack ... ", but there are, though rare.

Atherosclerosis does happen in the arteries of the kidney. Narrowing of those arteries can be a cause of hypertension.

https://www.webmd.com/hypertension-h...s-treatments#1

Infarction of the kidney can happen:

https://www.merckmanuals.com/profess...-and-occlusion

"Stenosis and occlusion are usually due to thromboemboli, atherosclerosis, or fibromuscular dysplasia."

"Renal hypoperfusion results in renovascular hypertension, renal failure, and, if complete occlusion occurs, renal infarction and necrosis."

Infarction of the spleen:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...fig1_273525454

"a) (Case 1) Atherosclerosis of the splenic artery, preoperative computed tomography images. (b) (Case 2) Intraoperative observation of the spleen. Infarcted surface of the spleen, which lost its brightness due to tissue necrosis. (c) Necrotic spleen."

The authors of your link also conflate heart attack (myocardial infarction) and heart failure, which is loss of the heart's ability to pump effectively. Heart failure may follow a heart attack or happen if there is compromise of blood flow through the heart vessels without an actual heart attack. Other risk factors are high blood pressure, actual problems with the heart muscle itself (cardiomyopathy, which sometimes follows pregnancy or a viral infection of the heart), heart valve problems, heart birth defects, or diabetes.

https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/...rt-failure#1-3

Digitalis is used to treat heart failure, but it does not prevent it.

Your article states that lowering cholesterol does not reduce heart attacks. That is not true; it does.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2556125

"Lower achieved LDL-C levels were associated with lower rates of major coronary events."
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:09 PM
 
3,085 posts, read 1,554,763 times
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If you read the NYT link I posted, 10,000 people at high risk for heart disease were treated with a drug that targeted inflammation. The result was that “Despite no change in cholesterol levels, there was a demonstrable reduction in heart attacks, stroke and cardiovascular death, particularly at higher doses of the drug. “

So targeting inflammation alone reduced heart attacks etc.

For yrs the medical community said dont eat eggs. Then they reversed their recommendations. Its not the cholestrol thats the culprit.

And as far as gum disease/inflammation is only a product of poor lifestyle - ah no. True of heart attacks too.
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Old 05-27-2018, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,131 posts, read 41,338,442 times
Reputation: 45226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Williepaws View Post
If you read the NYT link I posted, 10,000 people at high risk for heart disease were treated with a drug that targeted inflammation. The result was that “Despite no change in cholesterol levels, there was a demonstrable reduction in heart attacks, stroke and cardiovascular death, particularly at higher doses of the drug. “

So targeting inflammation alone reduced heart attacks etc.

For yrs the medical community said dont eat eggs. Then they reversed their recommendations. Its not the cholestrol thats the culprit.

And as far as gum disease/inflammation is only a product of poor lifestyle - ah no. True of heart attacks too.
The NYT article does not say that cholesterol is not the culprit.

"Libby and Ridker acknowledged the role of cholesterol and lipids."

The author of the article says, "'Bad' cholesterol was a necessary part of the equation - it was these lipid deposits that may incite the immune cells, they proposed - but it was not sufficient."

In fact, it says, "An avalanche of studies has implicated inflammation as a central player in many diseases - but there are inconsistencies."

One oncologist calls inflammation "a wastebasket word".

The medication in the study has significant side effects, too, including risks of low white blood cell counts and fatal infections.

Yes, inflammation seems to be important in atherosclerotic coronary heart disease but you ignore cholesterol at your peril.

The experts are not saying cholesterol is not the culprit, they are saying both cholesterol and inflammation are the culprits.
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