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I'm here to stay, if you don't like it just go to your own drug infested ghetto in Philly and implode if you like.
I am no longer resident of Philadelphia. It is funny that you would mention drug infestation since Dominicans are some of the premier drug traffickers in Philly and NY. And tend to reside in some of the most drug infest n'hoods in Philly! Now go away forever.
Not all Dominicans are Afro-Caribbean. There are mixed Ameridian-Spanish Dominicans. And there are pure White Dominicans. And being of Afro-descent doesn't eliminate you from being Latin-American. If you come from a Spanish-speaking country, you're a Latin-American. Latino isn't really a race, it's an identification of the origins of the primary language of that country. Technically, anyone from any country in which the primary language derives primarily from the Romance-Latin languages, than they can be clasified as a "Latino" or as "Latin-American". French, Portugese, Spanish, Castilian-Spanish, Italian are all primarily derived from Latin. Well, I may be incorrect, if I am, feel free to correct me.
To be fair, many historians credit the creation of Liberia by black Americans with the birth of Pan Africanism. It makes sense. Blacks from the States who moved into Libera had no direct cultural link to the tribes of that area. The concept of Pan Africanism was born to attempt to link the various peoples together. That was in the early 1800's. It would later serve as inspiration for "Garveyism" put forth by Marcus Garvey in the 1920's.
I do agree with you about the "one drop" rule. It is ignorant and backwards. But I think what some are getting at is there are people who clearly have West African ancestry who will flat out deny it. I am a fair skinned black American. I've had plenty of conversations with blacks from other cultures who will claim everything EXCEPT their African ancestry. I never argue. I let people define themselves the way they want.
But if a guy like me, who is on the light side of a brown paper bag, can proudly claim my portion of African ancestry those others should too.
Actually, the birth of Pan-Africanism did arise largely among Caribbean individuals. Edward W. Blyden is regarded as the father of Pan-Africanism. He was born in St. Thomas, Danish West Indies (then) and migrated to Liberia. His work laid a strong foundation for the movement. The first Pan-American conference was held in London and established the Pan-African Association. The conference was convened by Trinidadian Henry Sylvester Williams who was influenced by the works of Blyden. Years afterward, W.E.B. Dubois held the first Pan-African Congress in France and on and on. Looking at the great contributors, one will find a plethora of Caribbean & African individuals. Thus, to claim that movements regarding African consciousness is simply African-American is false.
Regarding acknowledging other heritages, there is a significant cultural difference between many black Americans and people of African descent from other nations. Many black Americans are quick to accuse others of denying their heritage or "claiming" everything except African ancestry simply because identify culturally more than anything. What does your skin color have to do with it? That doesn't automatically make you more mixed. There are people from where I am from who are very dark and have little to no African ancestry...and their mixed descendants are dark as well. It just depends.
Last edited by ReineDeCoeur; 04-16-2013 at 07:24 PM..
Black Americans spend to much time trying worrying about these people. If they want to hate themselves then go ahead and let them. They tend to have very little to offer us in the of friendship and comradery. Why are so many Dominicans playing Black Americans on TV and movies anyway? It's like they are mocking us or something.
Identifying differently does not automatically mean self-hatred.
You know good and well that no one is mocking Black Americans. There are opportunities and Dominican-Americans are going over them...simple.
I am no longer resident of Philadelphia. It is funny that you would mention drug infestation since Dominicans are some of the premier drug traffickers in Philly and NY. And tend to reside in some of the most drug infest n'hoods in Philly! Now go away forever.
I consider them typical Latin American. They have much more in common with Cuba, Puerto Rico, Panama, the Caribbean and Pacific coasts of Colombia and Venezuela; than they do with the rest of the Caribbean.
It even feels like a typical Latin American country, while in other Caribbean countries it feels more, well, Caribbean -the exception may be Haiti which is just extremely unique-.
One thing that greatly distinguishes the DR from the rest of the Caribbean is the large number of mixed race people seen almost everywhere. You will see so many people with a combination of racial features that is almost unknown in other islands, except maybe in PR and Cuba. My suggestion is to not go by what you see in videos or pictures, you have to be there to see how mixed the place truly is, both in terms of quantity of mixed race people and in terms of mixture of races. I hope you guys understand what I'm trying to say here.
Americans have a tendency to think that Latin Americans are only those of Mexican/Central American origin, but in reality it's a mixed bag down there and you can group all those countries into at least four major subcultural groups:
The Afro-Latin (or as they call it, the Mulatto Latin America) would be the countries I mentioned already.
The Mestizo countries would be Mexico, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, the interior of Colombia, and Paraguay.
The Indigenous (or Indian) countries would be Guatemala, Peru, Ecuador and Bolivia.
The Euro countries would be Argentina, Uruguay and Chile (this one is really majority Mestizo, but they are predominantly European in culture and habits, and their appearance is predominantly European, IMO).
And then there's Brazil which is a world of its own.
This is why people need to travel. You will learn that few countries, especially in Latin America, fit nicely in generalized labels.
All the countries I grouped here have more in common among themselves than they do with the rest of the region, but they have more in common as a region than they do with countries outside of it. Even though I put Brazil on a category of its own, its mostly due to the Portuguese heritage. Had Brazil been of Spanish heritage but the current racial/cultural admixture, it would had easily fitted into the Afro-Latin group, especially with the Spanish Caribbean islands.
One thing that may be a surprise to many people here is that I didn't noticed much denial of anything African. Maybe its a generational thing and the newer generations are more open to that, but I really didn't see any major signs of denial. Race appears to not be a big deal since you will see people of all types enjoying each others company quite often and racial tensions appear to be almost unknown. I would even say that the concept of race simply doesn't exist for most people down there. That's what it seem to me.
I was there for three weeks, for whatever that is worth.
Oh yes, and before I forget, one other thing that really distinguishes the DR from the rest of the Caribbean is the large number of exotic/attractive looking people. Its unbelievable. In this aspect it really resembles Brazil.
LOL. The Caribbean IS mixed. You can find exotic and attractive looking people all throughout the Caribbean islands and nations. This is not exclusive to just Spanish speaking Latin America, or to Portuguese speaking Brazil. And all of Latin America has significant large black populations.
You are generalizing very much. I've traveled to many Caribbean nations. What nations have you traveled to because you're generalizing big time.
Why can't they be all three? The terms are not contradictory and there are people who are all three. A Black Cuban, for example, is all three. So is an average haitian and others, including many Dominicans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ObscureOpulence
LOL. The Caribbean IS mixed. You can find exotic and attractive looking people all throughout the Caribbean islands and nations. This is not exclusive to just Spanish speaking Latin America, or to Portuguese speaking Brazil. And all of Latin America has significant large black populations.
You are generalizing very much. I've traveled to many Caribbean nations. What nations have you traveled to because you're generalizing big time.
Um...Anywhere from New York City down to Buenos Aires is mixed. That's the history of the New World. Mixed people may be more obvious in the DR or Curação, but the US is filled with mixed people, as is Mexico, Colombia, and a host of other nations.
The Caribbean or Brazil aren't the only places with mixed people. THey can be found anywhere where there are different ethnic groups.
And being mixed doesn't necessarily mean attractive all the time. I've seen my share of Mulatto monsters and pure african beauties.
Last edited by DginnDoctor; 07-26-2013 at 12:26 PM..
Reason: Added the word "and" between "haitians" and "others."
While Haiti could technically fall under the umbrella of Afro-Latino since they speak both French and Haitian Creole, "Latin" in the U.S. is understood to be anything that speaks Spanish, as incorrect as that is, and therefore excludes countries like Haiti and Brazil. And Afro-Caribbean, for what I've learned, was typically reserved for non-romance language speaking Caribbean countries and territories.
The entire Caribbean could qualify as Afro Caribbean. As there are Afrodiasporic cultural influences found all throughout the so called Caribbean.
In the English language (especially the US version ) there is a difference between being Latin vs Latino. That "o" at the end changes the meaning of Latin and it is Latino that is used in the US. Latino (also synonymous with Hispanic) means descendant of Spanish speaking peoples. Latin is anyone that speaks a Romance language, mainly Spanish, Portuguese, French, or Italian.
I also think there is a hidden racial component to the US definition and usage of the word Latino/Hispanic. Most Latinos are mixed race individuals, whether mestizos from Mexico, Central America or South America; or mulattoes from the Spanish Caribbean, and small number of whites. The vast majority of those three racial groups have at least some Spanish blood mixed in and the Spanish language is also their mother tongue (which is probably due to having Spanish blood, the language was simply passed down from one generation to the next starting with the first Spaniard that impregnated the first indigenous or African woman, producing the first generation of the mixed race descendants.)
The whole issue with Haiti is that less than 5% of the population actually speaks and understands French (and they tend to be the mixed race minority, most of whom have French blood in them and that is one thing that differentiates them from the majority that is almost fully of African ancestry.) Most Haitians living in the US are not from the French-speaking/mixed race upper class. Most Haitians in the US can't even understand French (and don't even have a drop of French blood in them), so they can't really be considered Latin anymore than most former French colonies in Africa, which are also not considered Latin due to the same reason (most of the people in those countries don't have French as their mother tongue and most of the minority that do have French as their native tongue are mixed race individuals themselves with partial genetic ties to France.) Also, Haitians don't have Spanish as their mother tongue, so they can't be considered Latino either, not even under a technicality.
Haitians are a very unique people in this hemisphere.
Have you ever even been to Haiti or travelled to Haiti? Most Haitians understand French. French is taught in schools and it is the OFFICIAL LANGUAGE of Haiti period. And most Haitians have racial admixture. You are reading what outsiders post on Haiti, and sucking it up as being sole fact. Many Haitians have Taino bloodlines. And there are other groups in Haiti.
Haitians are very much so Latin.
By the way in Spanish there is a term called "Latín", just so you know.
What would you make of Martinique and Guadeloupe? They are still integral parts of France but what would you consider these places as? They are most definitely Latin. There is Latinité (Latinidad) in French speaking places.
Places like Trinidad, Dominica, St Lucia, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Grenada among other places are Latin.
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