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I think the rest of the world views the American notion of race as being very bizarre..When some of my West African friends
first came to the U.S...We were watching the crowning of the first "black" Ms. America..My friend would say "Is she Black?"
I said to him, "Well in this country she is considered that." ... Then he said, "On watching TV in this country, it is funny to see some of these people who are almost white with green eyes talking Black Black Afro-centric Africa this and Africa that."
I wonder what he thinks about these twins:
Whatever anyone do, don't tell these guys they are not black. That's lying to them and lying is not nice. You know, we don't want for them to be in denial or anything. That would be messed up. LOL
Actually, I wonder what these guys would think if they ever visit Haiti and start making the comments they did in the video.
Found this video on Youtube where a few Haitian mulattoes are shown. I guess it could be of use to gauge who's considered mixed in Haiti.
And here's the son of the current Haitian president, who I think would also be considered mulatto in Haiti (he appears at 2:55):
Somewhat related to the topic, although not related to Haiti, is the situation mixed race people are now facing in South Africa (over there mulattoes refer to themselves as coloureds):
Apparently mixed race South Africans feel discriminated against for not being black.
Whatever anyone do, don't tell these guys they are not black. That's lying to them and lying is not nice. You know, we don't want for them to be in denial or anything. That would be messed up. LOL
Actually, I wonder what these guys would think if they ever visit Haiti and start making the comments they did in the video.
What these guys will be in the Caribbean is interesting. They are on the border. Light skinned, but negroid features. I will say if they have soft hair they will be mixed. If not these days they will be black. If their eyes are blue, then they will be mixed.
.
Found this video on Youtube where a few Haitian mulattoes are shown. I guess it could be of use to gauge who's considered mixed in Haiti.
And here's the son of the current Haitian president, who I think would also be considered mulatto in Haiti (he appears at 2:55):
Somewhat related to the topic, although not related to Haiti, is the situation mixed race people are now facing in South Africa (over there mulattoes refer to themselves as coloureds):
Apparently mixed race South Africans feel discriminated against for not being black.
lol as if the Coloureds haven't been discriminating against Blacks for decades.
lol as if the Coloureds haven't been discriminating against Blacks for decades.
Some of them claim that coloureds also formed part of the liberation movement for what was promised to be a non-discriminating new South Africa.
On the other hand, here's an interesting video that is sort of related to this thread, such as when a mixed person is considered one thing or another. Even in the USA it seems there is some flexibility for some mixed people.
Actually, when you think about it, all the videos posted in this thread are related to Haiti, considering that Haiti has a history of anti-mulatto discrimination as well. Maybe the one message behind it all is that history repeats itself.
As far as the guys in the video...if they were in Sierra Leone they would be called "bright"...Since my friend is still in this
country he has since adjusted to the American concept as to what is black..
Some of them claim that coloureds also formed part of the liberation movement for what was promised to be a non-discriminating new South Africa.
On the other hand, here's an interesting video that is sort of related to this thread, such as when a mixed person is considered one thing or another. Even in the USA it seems there is some flexibility for some mixed people.
Actually, when you think about it, all the videos posted in this thread are related to Haiti, considering that Haiti has a history of anti-mulatto discrimination as well. Maybe the one message behind it all is that history repeats itself.
Haiti does NOT have a history of anti-mulatto discrimination. Mulattos were the favoured class of Haiti, to the extent that Haiti has a widespread bleaching problem because of the colour complex. If anything, it was the Mulattos who were doing the discriminating.
Mulattos who were exiled in the 20th century left because they lost favour with various regimes in power due to them being percieved as a threat to those in power.
In regards to South Africa, the Coloureds may not benefit directly from Affirmative Action in the way that Blacks do, but remember that Coloured South Africans earn nearly five times as much as Black South Africans do on average and enjoy a far greater standard of living, while simultaneously having their own history of prejudice against Blacks. Their cries fall on deaf ears.
Haiti does NOT have a history of anti-mulatto discrimination. Mulattos were the favoured class of Haiti, to the extent that Haiti has a widespread bleaching problem because of the colour complex. If anything, it was the Mulattos who were doing the discriminating.
Mulattos who were exiled in the 20th century left because they lost favour with various regimes in power due to them being percieved as a threat to those in power.
“…Haiti is a socially-divided country. It is markedly divided along skin-colour and regional lines, which altogether makes it very difficult to establish and sustain a national vision for economic growth and development. Under the Duvalier dictatorship, for instance, Francois (“Papa Doc”) Duvalier gained political support from the rural blacks based on his strong anti-mulatto stance.”
(Jamaica Gleaner News - Missing links in Beckles' Haiti analysis - Commentary - Tuesday | January 26, 2010)
“Papa Doc changed the flag from red and blue to red and black stripes to emphasize the black founders of the country over the mulatto founders. Under Papa Doc, the black and red flag became a symbol of anti-mulatto bigotry."
(Origins of the Haitian Flag | The Haitian Flag)
“Dessalines’s land policy was as much anti-mulatto as it was anti-French or anti-white, a situation that exacerbated the tensions between Haiti’s two emergent elites and led to a mulatto-inspired conspiracy that prompted his assassination in 1806.”
(Howard Temperly)
Dessalines, Jean Jacques (zhäN zhäk dĕsälēn`), c.1758–1806, emperor of Haiti (1804–6), born a slave. A shrewd general, he served under Toussaint L'Ouverture in the wars that liberated Haiti. His barbaric cruelty against the mulattoes whom Toussaint was unable to control led to a bitter struggle with the mulatto leaders André Rigaud and Alexandre Pétion.
(Dessalines, Jean Jacques definition of Dessalines, Jean Jacques in the Free Online Encyclopedia.)
“Anti-mulatto sentiment remains a threat as the nation seeks to regain its political equilibrium. Blacks dominate the vast majority of the new political organizations, which are organized around grass-roots issues and have their greatest appeal to the black peasantry and rural migrants in the cities.”
(William D. Copllin)
"Folks, I was 11 years old when this happened. In 1960 Jeremie , at 11, you
were not allowed to take part in the adults' conversation when they visited
your house, once you finished parading before them for greetings. Therefore,
I missed a lot of the logic of the killings that took place during that time
and maybe some important facts. Except that Francois Duvalier, directly or
indirectly, was eliminating the mulattos as part of his social and racial
revolutions. Some details may not be exactly as I stated it here. But the
fact remains that these people got killed during the Duvalier's reign, under
direct or indirect orders from him, and their possessions looted first by the
authorities who executed the massacre, then by the masses to whom they were
opened for public pillage. The real authorities at the time, as was
perceived then, were First Lieutenant Abel Jerome for the armed forces and
police, and Sanete Balmir for the Tonton Macoutes.
The killings were so horrific that I had problems understanding how humanity
can get that low. After arresting Pierre Sansarick and decided his fate, they
entered his house at night took and killed everything that moved. They killed
his wife; a wife sister, Edith; his son, Pierre Jr; the son's wife,
Graziella; Pierre Jr's infant baby; another son - I don't remember his name;
his teenage son, Reynold; an underage daughter; and even house maids living
in the house. Many people claimed that the house's dogs did not get spared.
And if that was not enough, some of the people who executed the killings went
afterwards to brag that they killed the infant baby by piercing with a
bayonet and that "li tordie tankou ve" (he squirmed like a worm). That was
Francois Duvalier's signature fight to stay in power. Once one member of a
family opposed him, the whole family had to die to eliminate future threats
to his hold to power for life. Obviously, I was not a witness to the killings
but that was the story reported by the grown-ups that trickled down to us
youngsters, at the time.
The Duvalier's people also killed Gerard Guilbaud and his wife whose maiden
name was Drouin. It was also reported that she was pregnant at the time. They
went to Victor's Villedrouin's house in Bordes took and killed him, his wife
and children, including his very popular young teenager at school, Frantz
Villedrouin. They also arrested and killed Louis Drouin.
The common denominator in all these massacres was that all the people
executed were light skinned mulattos. The actions made all light skinned
mulattos of Jeremie living in fear that one night would be their turn, until
they left the city.
(http://www2.webster.edu/~corbetre/ha.../msg02518.html)
Seems to me that Haiti definitely has an anti-mulatto past in more than one occasion and going even to the very beginning of the country.
The massacres committed against Haitian mulattoes is well known, but I'm not sure if the Haitian mulattoes ever committed any massacres against the blacks. Did they?
“…Haiti is a socially-divided country. It is markedly divided along skin-colour and regional lines, which altogether makes it very difficult to establish and sustain a national vision for economic growth and development. Under the Duvalier dictatorship, for instance, Francois (“Papa Doc”) Duvalier gained political support from the rural blacks based on his strong anti-mulatto stance.”
(Jamaica Gleaner News - Missing links in Beckles' Haiti analysis - Commentary - Tuesday | January 26, 2010)
“Papa Doc changed the flag from red and blue to red and black stripes to emphasize the black founders of the country over the mulatto founders. Under Papa Doc, the black and red flag became a symbol of anti-mulatto bigotry."
(Origins of the Haitian Flag | The Haitian Flag)
“Dessalines’s land policy was as much anti-mulatto as it was anti-French or anti-white, a situation that exacerbated the tensions between Haiti’s two emergent elites and led to a mulatto-inspired conspiracy that prompted his assassination in 1806.”
(Howard Temperly)
Dessalines, Jean Jacques (zhäN zhäk dĕsälēn`), c.1758–1806, emperor of Haiti (1804–6), born a slave. A shrewd general, he served under Toussaint L'Ouverture in the wars that liberated Haiti. His barbaric cruelty against the mulattoes whom Toussaint was unable to control led to a bitter struggle with the mulatto leaders André Rigaud and Alexandre Pétion.
(Dessalines, Jean Jacques definition of Dessalines, Jean Jacques in the Free Online Encyclopedia.)
“Anti-mulatto sentiment remains a threat as the nation seeks to regain its political equilibrium. Blacks dominate the vast majority of the new political organizations, which are organized around grass-roots issues and have their greatest appeal to the black peasantry and rural migrants in the cities.”
(William D. Copllin)
"Folks, I was 11 years old when this happened. In 1960 Jeremie , at 11, you
were not allowed to take part in the adults' conversation when they visited
your house, once you finished parading before them for greetings. Therefore,
I missed a lot of the logic of the killings that took place during that time
and maybe some important facts. Except that Francois Duvalier, directly or
indirectly, was eliminating the mulattos as part of his social and racial
revolutions. Some details may not be exactly as I stated it here. But the
fact remains that these people got killed during the Duvalier's reign, under
direct or indirect orders from him, and their possessions looted first by the
authorities who executed the massacre, then by the masses to whom they were
opened for public pillage. The real authorities at the time, as was
perceived then, were First Lieutenant Abel Jerome for the armed forces and
police, and Sanete Balmir for the Tonton Macoutes.
The killings were so horrific that I had problems understanding how humanity
can get that low. After arresting Pierre Sansarick and decided his fate, they
entered his house at night took and killed everything that moved. They killed
his wife; a wife sister, Edith; his son, Pierre Jr; the son's wife,
Graziella; Pierre Jr's infant baby; another son - I don't remember his name;
his teenage son, Reynold; an underage daughter; and even house maids living
in the house. Many people claimed that the house's dogs did not get spared.
And if that was not enough, some of the people who executed the killings went
afterwards to brag that they killed the infant baby by piercing with a
bayonet and that "li tordie tankou ve" (he squirmed like a worm). That was
Francois Duvalier's signature fight to stay in power. Once one member of a
family opposed him, the whole family had to die to eliminate future threats
to his hold to power for life. Obviously, I was not a witness to the killings
but that was the story reported by the grown-ups that trickled down to us
youngsters, at the time.
The Duvalier's people also killed Gerard Guilbaud and his wife whose maiden
name was Drouin. It was also reported that she was pregnant at the time. They
went to Victor's Villedrouin's house in Bordes took and killed him, his wife
and children, including his very popular young teenager at school, Frantz
Villedrouin. They also arrested and killed Louis Drouin.
The common denominator in all these massacres was that all the people
executed were light skinned mulattos. The actions made all light skinned
mulattos of Jeremie living in fear that one night would be their turn, until
they left the city.
(#2447: Duvalier - Jeremie Massacres 1964 (fwd))
Seems to me that Haiti definitely has an anti-mulatto past in more than one occasion and going even to the very beginning of the country.
The massacres committed against Haitian mulattoes is well known, but I'm not sure if the Haitian mulattoes ever committed any massacres against the blacks. Did they?
Haiti's mulattos systematically denied the Black majority access to the country's schools, universities and other avenues of social mobility. Of course they were occasionally a target of political ire...they drew that target on themselves. The Duvalier regime's treatment of the Mulatto population of Haiti was purely to maintain support among the deeply impoverished Black masses. The most obvious evidence for this was the fact that Duvalier himself MARRIED into a wealthy Mulatto family (as did his sons, as did Aristide, as did Préval...)
Haiti's mulattos have ALWAYS acted in self-interest. Always. Their involvement in the revolution only happened because their rights were being restricted, not because Black rights were. Their political stance for the first 150 years of Haiti's existence was to retain their privileged status vis-à-vis that of the Black masses, and that has NEVER changed, even now. Only a handful have ever actually acted for the common good, and those that did were called traitors to their kind.
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