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Please, ppl should identify as human being and leave it at that since that's the only race that there is. Humans have not evolved enough to where there are different subhumans or subspecies.
In addition, if we follow your logic, you and others still would complain. For example, an ambiguous mixed race looking person that is mixer that doesn't look like any one particular stereotypical "race" walks among one race of people, that person might get told that they are not white enough or black enough or Asian enough or whatever else enough, which is why mixed often form their own category, because they get reject and hate from both sides.
Among the so called black communities, many may shun or tell the lighter or mixed child that they are not black enough and they often have to prove that they are black enough to others whose blackness is not questioned. So you have to keep in mind that the antagonisms can be mutual and go both ways.
For example, Mariah Carey's father is half Venezuelan and half U.S. American. Her paternal Venezuelan grandfather was mixed race ancestral lineage, and her grandmother had African American (and possibly Creole roots from Alabama). Growing up, Mariah Carey said her grandmother didn't accept her as hers because she came out the whitest of her two other siblings, since Mariah had blonde to dirty blonde hair while her older sister and older brother had darker hair colors. Mariah was shunned as being a sign of infidelity even though she was in fact biologically related. It was simply paranoia of her black grandmother feeling that mixed is not really black enough.
Also George Zimmerman is part black so why aren't you and others claiming him as your "brotha" and kin, hmm?
Light skinned people don't get shunned in the black community. Again, where do you get this from? When I was growing up, in the 80s, in the projects, there were a good many light skinned people around. people never bothered them for the most part, and in general no one saw them as different, because they weren't. A light skinned person in the black community isn't some oddity or rarity. There are just as many light skinned black people as their are dark skinned black people. I would even say that where I grew up, most people were light brown more so than really dark or really light. I had NEVER heard of anything relating to colorism until I became an adult, and the info I read about colorism was mainly historical. The bottomline, in the black community I never saw this supposed dynamic or dark skinned vs. light skinned. As far as the Mariah Carries of the world are concerned, people who are mixed are generally pretty messed up people. No strong sense of indivualism, and mixed people have a strong victim mentality.
If you want to break it down, the main issue with the world today are mulattos. You see mulattos are born into a race based world, where we are taught that the makeup of your character is largely based on your skin color. The mulattos who grow up today aren't like the mulattos that grew up in my grandmother's time. You see back in my grandmother's day, no matter how light you were, you could still be burned and hung. Or if you're a fine light skinned woman you could be raped. And that light skinned person grew up being harassed or seeing their darker skinned family members harassed. So there was no "calling yourself mixed" because you were in it together. These days it's different. We already live in a world where strong personalities are not commonly created on any side of the racial spectrum. So mulattos see strong Asian, white, black communities and feel they must have a sense of community themselves. It's because they're weak people individually, where people who are black or white don't really spend a lot of time wondering where they fit in. People who are one race can spend more time worrying about how to have a decent personality and less time worrying about what race they are. It is why the mulattos and mixed people will always fall behind, and the reason why they have such an inferiority complex. Back in the days, a mulattos wasn't worth anything at all, but they've found their platform due to a bunch of ass backwards latin Americans finding their way into America. If it wasn't for latin America spreading their stupidity in America, mulattos would rightfully be where they're suppose to be. They would be choosing like they've always had to do in the past.
You can't have it both ways. So it's obvious that you don't like it when ppl play identity police and police your identity or the identities of people and those close to you.
Why not identify a person by their name and as an individual? And ultimately as long as humanity continues to breakdown race labels and other barriers presented towards us in our way. As long as we continue to break them down. I am a supporter of human self identity. You have no right to tell anyone to identify and neither does anyone have any right to tell you how to identify. Equal opportunism.
Also, if you are against mixed identity, I urge you to not have children with people outside of your race, because that would be counterproductive to your beliefs and spread much afrocentrist clap trap hypocritical and hypocrisy delusion. Halle Berry and Paula Patton are great examples of that, and they are more than half white themselves. IDIOTS. and they have the nerve to denounce and police others identities. Smh. It's just bull****
I'm hardly an afroncentrist. I just believe people should be choosing 1 thing. Do you see how complicated these "mixed raced" discussion are? It makes my head spin. I'm glad I can look in the mirror and be like "I'm black". End of story, end of discussion. I don't care who F'ed who 100-200 years ago, I'm black, and I essentially keep it simple. I mean, all of this effort to be "mixed" just seems like a waste of time anyway. And that is why you have the Nicky Minaj's of the world. People don't even know what they want to be, so they walk around life confused. All that time you walk around confused about what you are, you could be more productive in other things in life, beyond race. There is nothing wrong with choosing something and sticking with it. Imagine if all of our real life decisions were all a bunch of shades of grey? We would never get anything productive done. Sometimes you just have to make a choice and stick to your guns.
Wow, so are we just making up stuff as we go along. I've been black my entire life, and I've never heard anything so ridiculous. You claim to be "anti-racist" but you want to further create categories i.e more levels of separation. So in your world, me and my light skinned cousin should be of two totally different races. This is the reason why I really don't dig this whole "mixed" thing. When everyone was black and when everyone was white, people had better unity and sense of community. All this mixed thing does is create isolation in already flimsy communities. In my opinion the whole "mixed" thing does have a major impact on people. Especially when it comes to people with weak personalities and mentalities. People can just use their "mix" card for whatever perceived advantages they think comes with being "mixed" over black.
One group’s perception of what is “White”, “Black”, “Asian”, “Mixed” whatever might not be anothers. In one culture you might be seen as Black, in another you wouldn’t. The Masses vary by region.
Ultimately, the dichotomy of Black and White introduced in Jim Crow (believe it or not, one droppism and what not was not a part of slavery) has caused a lot of these antagonisms. Forcing people to pick sides.
Yep, no reading comprehension. I told you you had a choice, but that African American choice was influenced by what its cultural parameters for Black are. Jim Crow created a much larger community that identifies as Black as it fused in mixed groups as well. So your choice is still affected by what you see growing up. And again, it is not just you the individual, it is about general trends.
One group’s perception of what is “White”, “Black”, “Asian”, “Mixed” whatever might not be anothers. In one culture you might be seen as Black, in another you wouldn’t. The Masses vary by region.
Ultimately, the dichotomy of Black and White introduced in Jim Crow (believe it or not, one droppism and what not was not a part of slavery) has caused a lot of these antagonisms. Forcing people to pick sides.
Yep, no reading comprehension. I told you you had a choice, but that African American choice was influenced by what its cultural parameters for Black are. Jim Crow created a much larger community that identifies as Black as it fused in mixed groups as well. So your choice is still affected by what you see growing up. And again, it is not just you the individual, it is about general trends.
I don't think all bad things came from Jim Crow personally. Plus something that is bad can sometimes inadvertently create good results. Had it not been for Jim Crow, there would be no black wealth. During Jim Crow blacks had legit parallel economies, and a stronger sense of community. Blacks actually could make more money before Jim Crow forced integration. As a matter of fact, I'm convinced that the only reason why Jim Crow went away was to merge economies and bring black spending power into the mainstream economy. I wouldn't be surprised if big corporations at the time didn't lobby for Jim Crow to be abolished because they were losing out on so much potential black money. Integration largely weakened the black economic base. Blacks were at that point equal in performance to whites in terms of education. The only difference is that blacks weren't in the mainstream society, so their acievements were noted less.
Of course the winners tell the story, and they made Jim Crow seem horrible. The KKK murdering black people was a bad thing. But really did Jim Crow stop that from happening. Every place where there was Jim Crow wasn't necessarily a place that was ripe for Klan terrorism. You have a lot of striving middle and upper middle class black communities back then. So I'm one person who really never felt segregation was a bad thing, especially if more money can be made out of it. Integration and socialism destroyed the black community.
By these accounts, more than 40% call thenselves mulatos, mamelucos, cafuzos, moreninhos, caboclos, etc
In our culture we consider all our heritage, not just the black one based in racist theories... that´s why we're so cool
Ok so the 50% who aren't white have many different ways of identifying how mixed they are. Nothing wrong with that.
But the 50% who are white don't seem to do that, when they are just as mixed. Reason?
In Brazil white is good and black is bad. Its a very "nice" country because it is so easy NOT to be black and easy to be white. You still make my case.
The criteria is genetic combinations. Ressecive genes use to appear in future generations, that´s why newer generations have clear eyes even if their parents dont, etc
No the criteria is based on the fact that being white is considered to be socially prestigious, and being blacks is a disgrace. So people self identify based on a color hierarchy with the desired goal being white.
In Brazil is a "nice" country because its easy to escape being the "bad" black, and easy to become the "good" white".
Until your are able to establish the fact that the 50% who call themselves white are much less mixed than the 50% who aren't white I rest my case.
About as mixed as the average Black American. Most White Latinos are nowhere close to being "pure", but still look predominately white, albeit slightly exotic. I'd say the majority of White Latinos wouldn't really stand out as foreigners in Southern European countries, just as most Black Americans wouldn't stand out in most Sub-Saharan African countries.
So "white" Latin Americans are as mixed as black Americans. Yet when black Americans call themselves black all hell lets loose about how misguided they are for refusing to acknowledge their European ancestors (despite the fact that many were not acquired under the most favorable circumstances). But yet white Latins aren't seen as misguided.
Interesting in a region where there is almost perfect correlation between skin color and hair texture and socio-economic status.
First, they are not "insulting". They just find it strange that American people who "dont look so black", and CLEARLY have European ancestry, refuse to be called as mixed, and want to be called as "just black".
It's a cultural thing, and I don't think there is any possibility that you can ever understand it. It has nothing to do with "racism" in Latin America.
In fact, what makes it sound strange to Latin Americans is not the use of the word "black" by mixed-race Americans, but the use of the expression "African American". Latin Americans can't understand why Americans who clearly have ancestry from other continents besides Africa insist in calling themselves "African Americans", since they also have European ancestry.
Most people who call themselves "whites" in Latin America recognize that they are mixed-race themselves, and they are PROUD of it. They are proud to say that they are MIXED, even when they use the word "white" to describe themselves. Because "white" in Latin American has nothing to do with ancestry, but with COLOR OF THE SKIN.
See the difference?
Latin Americans don't care about ancestry, and they classify themselves according to the color of the skin. And they are proud to say that they are MIXED RACE people, EVEN if they call themselves "white" because of the color of their skin.
African Americans, just like other Americans, are OBSESSED with ancestry, but, paradoxically, they are ASHAMED of their European ancestry, and try to hide it.
Huge cultural difference here.
You just described white Latins who have non European ancestry, and yet its OK for them to be called white. And yet you now want to pontificate against what black Americans call themselves? If they want to be black they have as much right to call themselves black as does a mestizo from Brazil have a right to call himself white.
What really appalls you is that people who have the ability to "escape" from w highly stigmatized category refuse to. It confuses you. In your head you don't understand why they don't. You don't try to understand that the history of the USA is different and so how people self identify does as well. You aren't much different from those black Americans who storm down to Brazil and wonder why some one who is probably only 25% African insists in saying that they aren't black.
Because you surely don't apply the same criteria to light skinned Latin American mestizos who self identify as white,
As to the term African American. That term is controversial and indeed most black Americans do not use that term because they don't identify with Africa, and many don't even like Africans. So don't base your argument on that. In any case most people who are included in that term have the majority of their ancestry from West and/or Central Africa. From an ancestral point of view they are no less African than are many who run around calling themselves Irish American, or Italian American. The USA loves to think of itself as the land of immigrants, and I will leave it at that.
Now if white Latin Americans are so proud of being mixed, why don't they pick the full range of self descriptions as do those with very visible amounts of African ancestry? Its hardly likely that Kerry Washington will call herself black in Brazil. Yet some one who has as much non European ancestry as she has European will happily call themselves white.
And there you go. Calling black Americans ashamed of their Euro ancestry, when it might have been acquired through various forms of victimization during slavery, or in the Jim Crow era, with the bulk of their ancestors being the victims. Yet its OK for white Latins who are mixed not to adopt a self identification with being mixed, instead opting for one that implies only Europe.
As I said and will keep on saying, until proven wrong. In Brazil the more white you are the better you are seen to be. So most people self identify using a definition as far up the skin color ladder (black at the bottom, white on top) as they can. Bravo to those who get close enough to looking white to self identify as white. Pity to those so unmixed that they cant escape that stigma of being black.
The high correlation between skin color and socio economic status in Brazil is obvious and this explains why people self identify as they do, given that this is possible in Brazil.
Just be honest about it. The history of the Americas suggests that we all have skeletons in the closet when it comes to issues of skin color and appearance and Brazil is certainly no exception to that.
Ok so the 50% who aren't white have many different ways of identifying how mixed they are. Nothing wrong with that.
But the 50% who are white don't seem to do that, when they are just as mixed. Reason?
Reason: They are white, just as simple as that. Genetic combinations made then white.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
Until your are able to establish the fact that the 50% who call themselves white are much less mixed than the 50% who aren't white I rest my case.
Like I said before, in Brazil the european immigration is more recent than the african slavory. The european immigration was strong in the second half of the 19th century and in the first half of the 20th century, so its obvious that there are a lot more white people that are not so mixed than black ones. And this is evident when you walk into brazilian streets.
Last edited by Mr.Falcon; 01-08-2014 at 01:23 PM..
I'm an identity police for sure. Damn proud of it. I think people should choose one thing and stick with it. The whole mixed thing shows a lack of commitment.
Some people are just really too mixed to fit into any one box. I knew a family in Guyana. One brother looked mulatto, Another looked Portuguese. And a third looked part Portuguese and part East Indian.
so what should they have called themselves? Note that they all have the same parents. Mixed seems to be the least controversial label.
As a further point, the last one tried to self identify as black because he felt most comfortable among AfroGuyanese. They weren't having it.
So wheel and come again as the Jamaicans say.
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