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Old 08-07-2017, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
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Right now, Venezuela is South America's greatest tragedy.
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks View Post
Brazil is in suffering its longest and deepest recession in decades, some even argue in 100 years.
Even worse than when Brazil suffered from hyperinflation (3- and 4-digit percentage figure increases in prices) in the late 1980s-early 1990s?

But at least these days Brazil doesn't have such hyperinflation to deal with, as far as I know.
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks View Post
That is exactly why I did not go on a favela tour when I was in Rio a few years ago. Seemed quite a bit like making into a spectacle or a demeaning zoo attraction.

In Medellin, Colombia you can take a "Pablo Escobar" tour to his former "palace" outside the city. When I was in Medellin I opted not take the Escobar tour.
It's worse than that - the money from Favela tours goes right in the hands of the local Favela boss - aka drug gang - which assures the safety of the tourists. No one should ever go on a Favela tour.
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Old 08-08-2017, 01:21 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
4,629 posts, read 3,392,626 times
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Originally Posted by yofie View Post
Even worse than when Brazil suffered from hyperinflation (3- and 4-digit percentage figure increases in prices) in the late 1980s-early 1990s?

But at least these days Brazil doesn't have such hyperinflation to deal with, as far as I know.
Fair question. The current "downturn" has no hyperinflation.

Based on length and depth this is Brazil's worst recession since records have been kept.

"The numbers for 2015 were slightly worse. Added together, this means Latin America's biggest country — once one of the world's fastest growing economies — has undergone the longest and deepest recession since records began."

Brazil's Recession The Longest And Deepest In Its History, New Figures Show : The Two-Way : NPR
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Montreal
836 posts, read 1,254,878 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks View Post
Fair question. The current "downturn" has no hyperinflation.

Based on length and depth this is Brazil's worst recession since records have been kept.

"The numbers for 2015 were slightly worse. Added together, this means Latin America's biggest country — once one of the world's fastest growing economies — has undergone the longest and deepest recession since records began."

Brazil's Recession The Longest And Deepest In Its History, New Figures Show : The Two-Way : NPR
In other words, Brazil's economy/GDP has been contracting even more in the last few years (and unemployment has been worse) than during the hyperinflation years of the late 1980s-early 1990s? I'm not an economist, so I'm no expert, but how could that possibly be?

Sort of like how in Argentina in the late 1980s there was rampant hyperinflation, and yet in 2001-02 the basic economic indicators (e.g. GDP, unemployment) were much worse despite no hyperinflation?!
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:52 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yofie View Post
Even worse than when Brazil suffered from hyperinflation (3- and 4-digit percentage figure increases in prices) in the late 1980s-early 1990s?

But at least these days Brazil doesn't have such hyperinflation to deal with, as far as I know.
No. That time was so much worse for us people I was a kid but I remember my parents in long lines only for buy milk, many people unemployed, impossible get mortgages for buy house or loans to buy cars, much more beggars.
The downturn we had in 2000 was also worse than today much more unemployment and small wages.

Now I think how we have a downturn from a very higher level, from long rise years and with economic stability people don’t struggle so much how in the past, but we lost the opportunity of to be in a more developed level nowadays if the rise was kept.
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Old 08-08-2017, 07:48 AM
 
990 posts, read 879,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yofie View Post
In other words, Brazil's economy/GDP has been contracting even more in the last few years (and unemployment has been worse) than during the hyperinflation years of the late 1980s-early 1990s? I'm not an economist, so I'm no expert, but how could that possibly be?

Sort of like how in Argentina in the late 1980s there was rampant hyperinflation, and yet in 2001-02 the basic economic indicators (e.g. GDP, unemployment) were much worse despite no hyperinflation?!

look this;
''The country's economy is "now 8% smaller than it was in December 2014," according to the BBC.''

So the current downturn became the Brazilian GDP in the same size than December 2014, not in the same size than 1989. What they told is that Brazilian GDP has never fall -3,6 since last year, including in hyperinflation times, not that the GDP regressed for 1989 size.
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Old 08-08-2017, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Toronto
6,750 posts, read 5,721,454 times
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Default ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
It's worse than that - the money from Favela tours goes right in the hands of the local Favela boss - aka drug gang - which assures the safety of the tourists. No one should ever go on a Favela tour.
That is what I was worried about. When bad areas suddenly become safe for outsiders on tours... sounds fishy.
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Old 08-08-2017, 12:48 PM
 
Location: London, UK
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Rio is a mess but it will forever remain an iconic city and will bounce back someday. It still concentrates the highest property prices in Brazil.
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Old 08-08-2017, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
3,007 posts, read 6,284,977 times
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Originally Posted by survivingearth View Post
I live in São Paulo and fly to Rio almost every week ... Sad to see what has happened to Rio...The city is broke, crime is out of control, and favelas are growing out of control... Hard to beat the view of Rio from it's neighbor Niteroi and yet so sad when you arrive. Is Rio the biggest tragedy of SA?
It is only the latest. Argentina has been a 75 year self-inflicted economic disaster. Venezuela and colombia. have reversed course.

South America
* Birth rate was too high for too long
* Spanish colonization and its approach to centralized resource extraction has led to massively large and corrupt megacities.
* Politicians and proximity to natural resources in a left leaning region has been a disaster.
* Terrible legacy of slavery and racism--makes the US seem pristine.

South America is 50+ years away from having a chance. of digging out from its hole. But I am not optimistic.

S.
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