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Old 01-12-2018, 07:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
Slavery built the colonial powers more than the colonies. That was the point. This is especially true for nations that lacked a significant influx of migrants from the colonial power.
Not true. Slavery and oppression is terrible for economic development. European countries that had no real slave economy, like Germany and the Nordic countries did much better than slave powers like Portugal and Turkey/Ottomans. Slavery is an aristocratic, corrupt system that inhibits creativity and economic freedom. It just creates an elite that hijack the government for their own ends.

Last edited by PCALMike; 01-12-2018 at 07:45 AM..
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Hmm...I always felt it was more slavery used to build wealth in the Carribbean and South America.

In the U.S., you had an enormous immigrant population, particularly Irish-Americans among many others, that built a ton of s**t. In fact, the 'North' with industrial labor (based on the work of immigrants) went to war with the 'South' (slave-economy)....and the population and strength of the North winning had much to do with the Northerners being filled with immigrants producing a ton of ****. In the South, wasn't it mostly cotton and farms of that nature?
The cotton industry's cotton was used to make fabrics in Northern cities and in Britain and France. The fashion industry was directly tied to slavery. Banks grew wealthy in NY, London, and Paris off slavery as well, and academic institutions such as the Ivy League received their endowments from slavers.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
The cotton industry's cotton was used to make fabrics in Northern cities and in Britain and France. The fashion industry was directly tied to slavery. Banks grew wealthy in NY, London, and Paris off slavery as well, and academic institutions such as the Ivy League received their endowments from slavers.
You dont need slavery for this. On the contrary, when Germany decided they had to develop and industrialize, they gave the people more freedom from the slave-like system the people had been living under for centuries under German aristocratic elites. Germany grew just as strongly as France, Britain or America.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Not true. Slavery and oppression is terrible for economic development. European countries that had no real slave economy, like Germany and the Nordic countries did much better than slave powers like Portugal and Turkey/Ottomans. Slavery is an aristocratic, corrupt system that inhibits creativity and economic freedom. It just creates an elite that hijack the government for their own ends.
The comparison is with the colonies. Generally speaking, it built the colonial powers more than the colonies.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
The comparison is with the colonies. Generally speaking, it built the colonial powers more than the colonies.
It really didnt. It built aristocratic wealth in the hands of a few, but thats not really the same as saying it built the entire country. Its not how development works as seen by non-slave European countries like Germany and the Nordic countries. Slavery and oppression is bad for progress. Elites that seeks development and national strength are forced to open up for competition, fight corruption, implement land reforms and the rule of law, invest in its people through public education and reward innovation and creative destruction. Even if this means a huge threat to vested interests and powerful families and dynasties (which is why it causes so much resistance and progress is so slow in most countries). Slavery is just a continuation of the century old system of rural oppression and aristocracy.
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
It really didnt. It built aristocratic wealth in the hands of a few, but thats not really the same as saying it built the entire country. Its not how development works as seen by non-slave European countries like Germany and the Nordic countries. Slavery and oppression is bad for progress. Elites that seeks development and national strength are forced to open up for competition, fight corruption, implement land reforms and the rule of law, invest in its people through public education and reward innovation and creative destruction. Even if this means a huge threat to vested interests and powerful families and dynasties (which is why it causes so much resistance and progress is so slow in most countries). Slavery is just a continuation of the century old system of rural oppression and aristocracy.
In comparison to the colonies, it did. Despite the fact that it wasn’t good for progress....
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:55 PM
 
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Slavery was indeed prevalent in ALL of the America's, particularly those regions that were focused on agriculture. The abolition timeline really doesn't have anything to do with it, as basically they were all within the same half century period with Brazil being the last nation to outlaw it. It should be noted as well that the anti-slavery and abolitionist movement in the Northern US states predates Latin America by decades.

But slavery had little to do with the course of economic development and, as was pointed out, was often counterproductive. On the other hand the treatment of the provinces by the colonial powers was relevant. Spanish colonization was focused on quick-win exploitation rather than colonization, they didn't send colonists there - they sent soldiers and men to manage the slaves that worked in mines to transport sliver and gold back to Spain, they were also an empire in decline, they were if anything even more brutal to the indeginous population than in North America (although that is not really relevant). When they did colonize, it imposed their strict caste system. When the South Africa colonies did seek independence they broke up into countries rather than a coast to coast unity of "united states". Contrast that to North America Western Europe concept of colonization for the long haul, basically recreating English society. They set up cities, farms, factories, trade networks. It grew from there. When it was time to gain independence it was with a shared culture, identity, and history.
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
In comparison to the colonies, it did. Despite the fact that it wasn’t good for progress....
Aristocratic wealth in the hands of the few is not what I would call developing a country. Totally different policies were needed for that which often meant having to fight these same vested interests that sought to cling to their privileges (and thus inhibit development). In general, its pretty clear what causes the elites of any country in the Americas to open up for reform. American elites felt under great threat from the British empire, for good reason, and later on, global hegemony and the threat of the Soviet Empire spurred development, while the elites in Latin America felt comfortable with the status quo. Brazil does not really have a geostrategic threat so naturally the elites there have resisted change. It doesnt matter that Brazil have all the natural resources in the world and have been at peace for centuries. Thats not what builds a country. National security threats do. Thats why South Korea and Singapore are developed and Brazil is not.
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Southern MN
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A person could just as well ask why Africa isn't the most developed nation in the world since it still has slavery and vast untapped resources.


I think the person who responded to the question with the answer of climate comes close to part of the answer. Although, as others mentioned, this is a broad subject and has many intertwining factors. The United States was largely developed by people who had adapted to colder climates and as such had developed a different method for creating culture than their tropical brethren.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
In the U.S we sometimes hear that America's wealth was built from slavery. But other countries in the western hemisphere also had slavery. Not many of these countries are as developed as they could be. So is saying slavery is what built the U.S an over simplification?

How Slavery Built America Into An Economic Power | Here & Now
Slavery built a portion of the economy for one region of the US for a period of time but in fact, the non-slave areas already were more developed economically at the time of slavery and continued to advance over the former slave states and this has continued till now.
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