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Go to the rich areas and the blacks that you see are the maids. Go to the favelas and there is where all of the blacks and other darker folks can be found. That was Brazil 30 years ago long after it ceased to be the case in the USA. And from what I hear it has only marginally improved then.
Yes it is evident. I believe brazil would have greatly benefited from a civil rights movement.
Give Brazil the same economic variables the US has experienced in the past 150 years and we wouldn't be seeing the same picture today.
You cannot even fathom to compare the resources that have been at the US's disposal for over a century with the resources Brazil has had. Had the variables been more aligned economically for nearly 200 years we would most likely be seeing a different picture. Apples and oranges.
Give Brazil the same economic variables the US has experienced in the past 150 years and we wouldn't be seeing the same picture today.
You cannot even fathom to compare the resources that have been at the US's disposal for over a century with the resources Brazil has had. Had the variables been more aligned economically for nearly 200 years we would most likely be seeing a different picture. Apples and oranges.
There are many countries who don't have the economic variables of the US and managed to become first 1st world countries.
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The Four Asian Tigers, Four Asian Dragons or Four Little Dragons, are the economies of Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan, which underwent rapid industrialization and maintained exceptionally high growth rates (in excess of 7 percent a year) between the early 1960s (mid-1950s for Hong Kong) and 1990s. By the early 21st century, all four had developed into advanced and high-income economiesindustrializeddeveloped countries, specializing in areas of competitive advantage. Hong Kong and Singapore have become world-leading international financial centres, whereas South Korea and Taiwan are world leaders in manufacturing consumer electronics and information technology. Their economic success stories have served as role models for many developing countries, especially the Tiger Cub Economies
This woe is me victim mentality from countries who can't bother to look how Taiwan and South Korea pulled it off is getting ridiculous. The playbook is available, if Brazil and other countries refuse to follow it that's their problem.
The notion that countries like Brazil will never be better than what they are today, because they didn't have what other countries have, is very insulting to Brazilians and other developing countries. A poor person isn't born with a trust fund, should they not go to college and rise above their situation?
American, British media and Al jazeera has always tried to make Brazil look like a African country. When Whenever I watch the news they only show the Black Brazilians. Especially when I watch CNN they never mentioned that their was White Brazilians, Brown Brazilians, Indigenous Brazilians, Arab Brazilians, Japanese Brazilians, Korean Brazilians, etc...
I studied genetics and saw research studies on the Brazilian population. Like other South American countries, it is an example of "syncretism" with a mixture of customs and language from European, African and local indigenous cultures. The "mixing" means the Brazilian cohort has an typical member with at least ~12% West African DNA. Hence, "Brazil" is very much "Afro-Brazilian". The "catch" is that many don't want to admit it. The goal is usually to pass as "white" or "Portuguese" as if there were some distinct separation of the DNA genome that has already been heavily intermixed in the population.
I studied genetics and saw research studies on the Brazilian population. Like other South American countries, it is an example of "syncretism" with a mixture of customs and language from European, African and local indigenous cultures. The "mixing" means the Brazilian cohort has an typical member with at least ~12% West African DNA. Hence, "Brazil" is very much "Afro-Brazilian". The "catch" is that many don't want to admit it. The goal is usually to pass as "white" or "Portuguese" as if there were some distinct separation of the DNA genome that has already been heavily intermixed in the population.
Averaging it out doesn't give you a clear picture there is wide variation. But even if you averaged it all out and came up with 12% generally at that level you don't have a person with "Afro-Brazilian" phenotypes. For most people at least 15%-20% before you see some black, especially if they if they also carry significant amounts of Amerindian. . In general Brazilians with colonial ancestry have some black ancestors and they know it but most don't claim it. They just don't identify with that ancestry for the most part. Now look at your typical black American averages about 20% European ancestry plus or minus a couple of points and most don't claim it. It is about how you look in Brazil not whether you have some black ancestors the culture is different.
Did you see photos of Lulas’s mother? She is parda so he is pardo too. Most important than that he is a Brazilian from extreme poverty of Northeast Brazil, his Portuguese blood is not oligarch.
Both are the typical Pardo Brazilian, they are similar half part of population, the way you say people could imagine Brazilian are complexed people who only vote in people with Scandinavian looks.
Economically I don’t see difference in the racial dynamic between Brazil and USA if someone consider USA is much richer. The black American are well off than black Brazilian but they are the poorest in the USA, same way here in Brazil, they are poorer than Hispanic, most people living under poverty line in USA are black, the only difference is they are poor in a first world country, and black Brazilians are poor in a third world country.
Same way the average white in Brazil are poorer than white American.
There are black Brazilian supper rich, between the 1% richest Brazilian 17% are blacks again the dynamic is similar than in USA, they are few but exist.
What ever Lula's African ancestry might be it isn't visible in Lula. Try again!
And of course the issue isn't whether the USA is racist or not. Even Donald Trump will admit that racism exists. There is open discussions of racism in the USA. It is discussed and measured and then Latin Americans and Europeans call Americans race obsessed. Even as racism of a similar variety festers in their countries.
The fact is that the average white person living in a big city like NYC is way more aware of the presence of middle class blacks than will be true for people living in equivalent cities in Brazil. The issue isn't whether poor Americans are better off than are poor Brazilians. The issue is that fewer blacks in Brazil (and I do NOT mean mixed race people who aren't obviously of African descent) have reached the middle class.
Also you cannot have your cake and eat it too. If you want to claim that 17% of the elites in Brazil are "black" then accept the fact that 52% are black. You know fully well that 52% of the population is NOT black, even using US definitions, so toss out that 17% number! Brazil is a very skin color conscious society and there is a huge difference in how someone who is light skinned and predominantly Caucasoid is treated compared to a dark skinned African featured person.
phenotype is what matters. Say for instance obama and rashida jones. Both are half black and half white. Rashida though passes for white so she does not face the same level of discrimination that obama would. .
Those who deny racism add people looking like Rashida to the statistics in Brazil, then they will scream about why Americans will consider her to be "biracial" and not white.
Brazil has a race problem at least as severe as the USA, and given that the dominant opinion is to deny this, there has been LESS upward mobility for those who are unambiguously Afro descendant.
I await a description of at least 5 Brazilians who look like the Obama family who have powerful roles in the Brazilian corporate world. Instead we get Lula, who doesn't fit anyone's idea of being a black person, cited as evidence that blacks in Brazil don't have severe issue.
Give Brazil the same economic variables the US has experienced in the past 150 years and we wouldn't be seeing the same picture today.
You cannot even fathom to compare the resources that have been at the US's disposal for over a century with the resources Brazil has had. Had the variables been more aligned economically for nearly 200 years we would most likely be seeing a different picture. Apples and oranges.
How so. The USA has income inequality of almost the same magnitude that Brazil had. It had a system of apartheid (enforced by law in the South and custom every where else) and yet there is a higher degree of upward mobility among blacks in the USA than in Brazil.
The difference between the two is that in the USA there has been highly mobilized civil rights groups which pushed White America to see exactly what the problem of racism was all about and forced remedies that allowed at least a portion of the black population to achieve mobility.
The interesting thing about Brazil is that its AFTER this upward mobility in the USA was noted, way outpacing that visible in Brazil, and a black Brazilian intellectual class (most of them mulattos) began to complain of this, then we begin to see discussion of possible remedies, and the beginnings of greater upward mobility.
Brazil in the 1980s was like New Orleans in the 1950s, minus the segregation laws, but with racial hierarchies firmly in place. I can tell of numerous incidents that happened to me there and the fact that I carried "American privilege" that Brazilians looking like me didn't have. And I know of many who visited since and describe an environment only marginally better.
This below is from the mouths of Brazilians who show obvious African descent.
Also understand that 40% of the enslaved peoples dragged from Africa to the Americas ended up in Brazil. 10X MORE than went to the USA. Brazil was the LAST country in the Americas to abolish slaves and in fact the impact of slavery remains very evident up to today in terms of the socio economic roles that Brazilians play.
Also using Pardos as evidence of the existence of racism in Brazil makes no sense as this is not a monolithic group. Large numbers of these people are actually more visibly of Euro/Amerindian mixture little different from many who self identify as white.
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