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So, according to this, over 75% of almost 2 million Venezuelans in Colombia are Colombians returning from Venezuela? No basis at all for such claim.
I don't look at charts but one thing to keep in mind is that 20-40 years ago, Colombia was not a very safe place and a lot of Colombians fled to their neighboring country's. When I was in Ven in 2000, 2001 and 2002 there were a lot of Colombians there. Upon arriving in Panama and then Costa Rica in 2003 onward there were a lot of Colombians in those places as well.
Around 2005 things started to reverse as Colombia had become a much safer place and even started advertising in the US to tourists. And Venezuela, which had been going down hard since 1999 suddenly went over the edge. Many started to leave so I'm sure, many of those Colombians who fled for safety weren't "safe" anymore so they started returning home as their country was steadily improving.
Not to inject politics into this, but there is a rumour that Nicolás Maduro is actually Colombian. A news reporter went to his childhood home in Colombia and several neighbors corroborate that they saw him as a kid playing in the neighborhood. Of course, Maduro deny he's Colombian.
Also, in addition to the increasing safety as the guerrilla that had much of Colombia in a dire situation began to die down, several city governments put in place the rescue of parks, public places, and sidewalks. That greatly improved several Colombian cities. I have a book about Bogotá titled "Bogotá desde el aire" (Bogota from the Air) from the Villegas Editores (my favorite of all Colombian publishers because the theme in many of their books are different aspects of Colombia, its cultures, etc; they have a bookstore in Bogota where all the books on sale were published by them.) In that book it says that Bogota was an ugly city in the 1980's, but the city government began to improve many public places and sidewalks.
I think the sidewalks that predominate now (which are also higher than normal to prevent cars from parking on the sidewalk) make Bogota and other Colombian cities look so better.
I don't look at charts but one thing to keep in mind is that 20-40 years ago, Colombia was not a very safe place and a lot of Colombians fled to their neighboring country's. When I was in Ven in 2000, 2001 and 2002 there were a lot of Colombians there. Upon arriving in Panama and then Costa Rica in 2003 onward there were a lot of Colombians in those places as well.
Around 2005 things started to reverse as Colombia had become a much safer place and even started advertising in the US to tourists. And Venezuela, which had been going down hard since 1999 suddenly went over the edge. Many started to leave so I'm sure, many of those Colombians who fled for safety weren't "safe" anymore so they started returning home as their country was steadily improving.
The highest number of Colombians in Venezuelans ever was over 700.000 people in 2011, according to Venezuelan Census of that year. Let's say half of them returned to Colombia, that's much less than 75% of over 2 million people.
You can read claims of people saying there are 4, 5 or even 8 million Venezuelans of Colombian ancestry, but it's just unfounded claims.
Here is the case of what could be considered a return migrant. Carlos Julio Camilo studied economics at INTEC, one of the top schools in the DR, and with scholarship went to further his studies in Chile and later with another scholarship for an MBA at the University of Chicago (it’s school of economics has produced the most economists to win Nobel Prize more than any other university in the world, in fact he says many of the economist that were his professors had won Nobel Prizes.) Upon getting his MBA he had job offers in the USA before he graduated, but decided to return to the Dominican Republic. He has worked for the Central Bank of the Dominican Republic (more of a Federal Reserve equivalent than a typical bank) and a few Dominican financial companies such as Banco Santa Cruz. Finally, he was wooed to Promerica, which is an international bank with presence in several Latin American countries and in South Florida, USA where is its headquarters. The founder and president of that bank personally took him in his private jet and invited him to see Promerica’s operations in countries like Nicaragua and Ecuador as part of getting him to leave Banco Santa Cruz for Promerica. It worked and today he is the Vice President of Bancamerica Dominican Republic division.
The entire interview is in Spanish, was done in Santo Domingo, and was published a few days ago (not even a week has passed).
At 34:56 begins to say the following (only part of the interview that I will paraphrase into English):
Host - “You said something very interesting when referring to the group that went to Chile and probably are still in the government… we’ve had interviews with several people that have also have also remarked of the talent that exist in the Dominican government…”
Carlos - “Yes, you have no idea.”
Host - “We’ve had people that went from the private sector to work for the Dominican government and they’ve told us how impressed they were with the level of expertise of the professionals.”
Carlos - “I say that for the economics/financial area, the amount of talent in the Dominican government is superior to what exist in the Dominican private sector. In general, all the companies together and I think there are more in the Dominican government… To answer your question, definitely in the areas that have to do with the economy, with finance there are more professionals in the Dominican government than in the Dominican private sector.”
Host - “I said the comment because of the perception that exist that everyone that works in the Dominican government is there because someone named them or not necessarily due to their actual expertise. Yet, we’ve had several interviewees that said the opposite.”
Host in blue shirt - “Precisely yesterday I had a conversation with Bournigal and we touched this subjet, that the level of expertise in the Dominican government is extraordinary. People from outside the Dominican government doesn’t notice this. People don’t see them because they aren’t in the limelight.”
Woman host - “I will say this, we are all prejudging the government. By default we think that if so-and-so works for the government, he isn’t there because of his own merit.”
Host - “There is a reason why people think that, it’s not that everyone in the government is there with good intentions, rather they aren’t all as their is a large presence of highly skilled professionals in the Dominican government. (Aka, when mentioning people without good intentions, he’s referring to the corrupt who are only thinking about themselves).”
Woman Host - “For example, we went to an event by ASONAHORES (Dominican hotel and restaurant association, they basically represents the interests of the Dominican private tourism sector) and I left that meeting in shock. Jaqueline made an analysis presentation that left me in shock with her level of her expertise and sophistication. I was in full shock.”
Carlos - “They’re incredible. The institution that has the most highly skilled professionals is the Central Bank of the Dominican Republic. The amount of economists and other professionals is mind blowing. It isn’t by chance that the Dominican economy is so stable, that we never had hyperinflation (many countries in Latin America know what that is because they lived it such as Venezuela, Colombia, Peru, Argentina and others)… that doesn’t happen by chance or because of the politicians. There are experts behind the scene extremely highly skilled and capable applying their expertise in the Dominican economy.”
Woman Host - “It’s noticeable that the Dominican government changes parties and the Central Bank team remains very stable. For example, the Central Bank Governor is the same one regardless all the political parties that take control in the government.”
Carlos - “Yes, but the Central Bank Governor is an exceptional professional, but there is also a large group of people handling all aspects of the complex Dominican economy.”
Host - “The DR is fortunate to have those people. When we compare how the economies of other Latin American countries does, the difference with the DR’s is noticeable to not say something else.” (He’s referring to how the Dominican economy tends to be more stable, never had hyperinflation which kills the middle class and poverty skyrockets since prices increase by the hour, grows more, is among the most converging in the region, etc.)
Another example of a Dominican that returned to the DR is Sergio Carlo. In his case, he lived for a few years in Atlanta, Georgia, USA and very recently moved back to the DR. Before he used to live in Santo Domingo, but now he returned and lives in Punta Cana. What made him to finally take the decision to move back was the Covid pandemic.
This interview was done in Santo Domingo. That's where this Dominican podcast is made. For Spanish speakers, this is VERY informal. This is more like a conversation between Dominican buddies more so than a formal interview with the correct speech and such.
Btw, in another video the two host have said that they have been many times to the USA, but they will never leave the DR. From their perspective, the DR is the best country in the world. Exact words from them. Before anyone think they are rich, not at all. They are from humble origins from the town of Baní.
Host Cocco: "So Sergio, one thing. Now you are here in Punta Cana."
Sergio: "Yes, I'm here and travel a lot."
Host Cocco: "Why did you came back? What happened?"
Sergio: "Um..."
Host Leche: "You think it's the same here as in Atlanta? You didn't find work, say the truth. You know its not the same..."
Sergio: "I don't know why I said yes to come to this interview."
Host Leche: "Its not the same that here you just send a Whatssap to Robertico to put you in a movie... You know over there (the USA) is more difficult."
Sergio: "Two things at the moment of deciding to return to live in the Dominican Republic, despite I still have a business in Atlanta and I'm still working in advertisements and such. About two weeks ago I went there for that. Basically, the Covid pandemic gave us a shake. Loco, do you know what it was like for us to be enclosed in our apartment in Atlanta due to the lockdown and see my Dominican family here saying they are in a lockdown while in a beach. We are in a lockdown in someone's vacation house in Jarabacoa. What the heck! Impossible!
In addition to that, there is a big business opportunity right now with AirB&B. So we came to start a new business called Rentarica and to be close to our family, our friends..."
Host Leche: "To Luis Abinader…"
Laughs and Sergio makes a face. (Btw, they're not family or personal friends.)
Sergio: "That's why we came. We felt qlone overthere (Atlanta) and our families are here. So we are here."
Host Leche: "Why Punta Cana?"
Sergio: "Why the heck would I return to live in Santo Domingo with these horrible traffic jams and the bad drivers, are you crazy?"
Host Cocco: "But you came to be closer to the family… Why you didn't go to Santiago?"
Sergio: "I call them and tell then to cone by my house in the weekend and they come to Punta Cana."
Host Leche: "I have a beach, they don't." lol
Sergio: "Or I call them and agree all of us meet in Jarabacoa and I will go to Jarabacoa. Its not the same. From there (Atlanta) its US$800 flights, not like that. I would one day csll you guys to ask you to go to my house in Punta Cana…"
Host Cocco: "We have this videotapped as evidence…"
Sergio: "Listen, in the United States this doesn't exist."
Host Leche: "No, everyone is in their house."
Sergio: "Like you right now at 8pm you call someone and tell them to come to your house to drink beer or to do a quick barbecue... That doesn't exist in the USA."
Host Cocco: "Over there it has to be planned for summer time..."
Sergio: "One week, a week and a half before you have to tell people thst there will be something at your house at 3pm... you have to be crazy."
Host Leche: "Don't compare 4 hours driving vs a 2 and a half hour flight…"
Sergio: "We came back due to that and also Punta Cana has a different flow of things. For example, the gym is 12 minutes away from my house, the airport is 8 minutes away... The other week I went to Atlanta and asked my neighbor, who is my friend, to take me to the airport. I looked at my watch and it was 8 minutes from my house to the sirport. Yes, I line that."
Host Leche: "When he noticed the other guy didn't say a 'but,' his confused self had to wonder that something is wrong here, where is the airport?"
Sergio: "Guys, here (SD) the airport is a hour away."
Laugh
Sergio: "Plus the Ubers here in Santo Domingo a trip to the airport is a long distance trip and the charge an extra cost. It will be an RD$800 extra paid on the side. Not in Punta Cana. The final price is what it is on the app."
Sergio: "That's basically why we came back and we are happy. Obviously, there is an adaptation process, but overall we are happy."
Host Cocco: "What has been the most difficult adaptation?"
Host Leche: "Two months to get a passport." (Right now there is a passport booklet shortage, suppose to be resolved in a few months.)
Laugh
Sergio: "My goidness, there are no passports available in this country."
Host Leche: "Things that happen."
Sergio: "Right now, that where I live there is still a water shortage. That's not good. Although everything else is stable with hardly any power outages. I don't have a backup generator or anything which is something I would need here in the Capital. In Punta Cana that is fine."
Not surprising. Met plenty of immigrants with plans to return to their home country at later stages in life. A course it depends on the country. Haven't met anyone from Haiti with plans to return. Former coworker recently retired and moved back to Mexico after living and working the U.S. for over 40 years. He is drawing a pension, and has 401K funds, so he is able to live much better than if he remained in Los Angeles.
I have many Venezuelan friends here in Germany that arrived in recent years as refugees. They are not political refugees, instead fleeing a country that is simply broken, a near-failed state. All still have numerous family members back in VZ. I know of just one who is planning to return within the next year or so, even though conditions in VZ are not improving. The economic situation for most residents there is still very desperate. The education and health care systems are broken and rule of law is sporadic.
Location: Miami (prev. NY, Atlanta, SF, OC and San Diego)
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South Florida saw a 34% increase in international home purchases in 2022 v 2021 as (1) restrictions for fully vaccinated foreigners were lifted in late 2021 and (2) more South American countries veered left, such as Brazil, Colombia and Peru.
“Overseas buyers accounted for $6.8 billion of South Florida residential real estate between August 2021 and July 2022, according to a report from the Miami Association of Realtors. That’s up 34% annually, although the pandemic kept many buyers on ice the previous year as borders were closed. About 17% of home sales in Miami over the 12-month period were made by foreign buyers, with 16% hailing from Argentina followed by Colombia (13%) and Canada (8%).”
Here is an interesting case (in Spanish) of a Dominican woman that migrated to Italy as an undocumented immigrant (she went legally to Italy, but not as a resident and stayed there for a few years.) She says as an undocumented immigrant she went through many hardships from the people she was staying with to an Italian lawyer that took her monthly pay and basicslly told her she was nothing as an undocumented immigrant, etc. She was also scammed of €3,000 but she limits to say it was an African scam (its messed up, but what comes to mind are Nigerians, ok enough about that, lol.) The jobs that she found was taking care of elderly people and is really fond of the last old lady she took care of by the last name of Pina. Pina was 91 when she started to work with her snd died shortly after returning to the DR at 96.
While she says she is grateful to Italy as a country despite the bad moments some people made her live through, she is not interested to either go back to Italy or immigrate to another country. With the money she was able to save while working in Italy, during the Covid pandemic she returned to the DR and established her business in the country of hair extensions. She said God has blessed her since everything has been falling in the right place once she returned to the DR, including finding success in her business. She claims that the amount of money she uses now to cover the expenses of her business (money generated by the business itself before profits) is what she was making on a monthly basis in Italy.
She starts to speak of her Italy ordeal at 15:49 (everything is in Spanish.)
This one was posted in English (with an accent from a native Spanish speaker) on March 13, 2023. She is Dominican and her husband is an African-American. About 2 years ago they decided to leave the US and establish themselves in Santo Domingo. Here is what she thinks about it, if they have any regrets, etc.
Skip to 8:02 if you want to get to their opinion of two years ago moving to the Dominican Republic and if it was a mistake.
Many of the comments of the video are interesting too.
Last edited by AntonioR; 03-15-2023 at 09:05 AM..
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