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It's not just teens that it's bad for brainwise and developmentally. Though those in their 20s and younger are the hardest hit from what I've read.
Anytime someone says, "well, a bunch of other stuff is also bad for us", you know they don't have much to respond with. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not assume your advocating the reintroduction of DDT.
There is such a thing as not wanting a society to endorse things it shouldn't endorse. Some facts are uncomfortable and awkward, but they still are facts.
It's like when you're raising children and you don't want the mixed message sent on something like this that is now being sent and will become even more mixed in the future the way this is going.
My point is that I don't want a nanny state (or anonymous internet guy) deciding for me, which of the many potentially bad things are ok and which aren't. Pretty simple concept and very relevant to the discussion.
Where do we draw the line, and why have you chosen to draw it with this particular substance?
NO one can ever say that booze isn't worse for teenager than pot. The idea is absurd. Crashed cars, pregnancies from loosened inhibitions, I could go on and on. I'm not for prohibition of either. It's a failed policy and it's time we act like adults.
My point is that I don't want a nanny state (or anonymous internet guy) deciding for me, which of the many potentially bad things are ok and which aren't. Pretty simple concept and very relevant to the discussion.
Where do we draw the line, and why have you chosen to draw it with this particular substance?
NO one can ever say that booze isn't worse for teenager than pot. The idea is absurd. Crashed cars, pregnancies from loosened inhibitions, I could go on and on. I'm not for prohibition of either. It's a failed policy and it's time we act like adults.
Ever heard the saying "two wrongs don't make a right"?
I'm not telling you anything and I'm not advocating changing long standing laws, unlike you. The line has been drawn and existed for a very long time. Advocates for changing where the line is drawn should bear the burden of pushing their new line on all others.
I'm not telling you anything and I'm not advocating changing long standing laws, unlike you. The line has been drawn and existed for a very long time. Advocates for changing where the line is drawn should bear the burden of pushing their new line on all others.
That's reasonable to a point and I appreciate it, as well as the civil discussion.
However, the line was originally established under false pretences and when that's pointed out, it's not heard.
In addition, you are ignoring the fact that it's already widely available and that the illegal nature of it contributes to a high level of crime and damage to both people and property a lot of which could be alleviated by making it legal. So legalizing it would serve to crack down on other, what I and many reasonable people consider, more harmful processes.
We have more than two wrongs and they aren't arranged in a linear or black & white fashion.
If anything is being ignored it is all the ramifications legalization would have as well as just administrative challenges like determining what is a fair way to measure DUI for marijuana, given its characteristics that are very different than alcohol.
I'm not sure how the line was originally established under false pretenses. The history of marijuana prohibitions is long and detailed and I'll leave it at that. I believe it was initially mostly grown for non-drug uses like rope, etc.
I'll amend my previous saying to read "two or more wrongs don't make a right."
I'm not ignorant of the trend on this issue, but I find it irritating that there is often little or no discussion on the downsides, administrative challenges, etc. I guess that's like a lot of issues nowadays that rarely get past sound bites and emotions.
Legalize it, but make the taxes lower compared to Colorado. Personally, I'd rather the FEDs decriminalize it and let the states vote on legalization. Prohibition is archaic and needs to go the way of the Dodo.
Thank you for referencing these sources which indicate that many felons are also addicted to drugs. Your sources also refer to the cost to society of drug abuse. I believe this is also evidence that making drugs more available will not relieve a problem but in fact might make it worse.
And why exactly are you thanking me?
Many felons are addicted to drugs. So what? Remember, correlation does not imply causation. Many felons are also alcoholics. Our current drug laws and criminal justice system actually turn drug users into real criminals by sending them through our jail system and exposing them to every type of criminal and criminal activity.
You are right, there is obviously a "financial cost to society" as a result of drug abuse. But that shouldn't be a shocker to any reasonable human being. Not sure what point that is supposed to affirm. There are massive financial costs to society as a result of Obesity. Fat Americans are responsible for 190 Billion of added annual medical expenses. The U.S. Airline industry even burns an additional 350 million gallons of jet fuel (1 Billion dollars annually) due to over weight passengers. Should we outlaw In-N-Out and Carl's Junior? There is a "financial cost to society" for almost everything.
You are also mixing drug use with drug abuse, which is careless. They are entirely different things. Dr. Carl Hart (a renowned neuroscientist) wrote a book called the High Price. In the book he proves that over 80% of illicit drug users are not drug addicts (in the same way that the vast majority of people who consume alcohol are not alcoholics). He also did an interesting Ted talk that I strongly recommend checking out.
You mentioned the problem of making drugs more available. Have you ever heard of a Cocaine addict who doesn't use Cocaine because Cocaine isn't available? Drugs will always be available in our society no matter what reckless policies you enact and no matter how much collateral damage you inflict. For example the U.S. has the biggest, best, most expensive and advanced prison system in the world. We still don't have a single drug free prison.
Practically every study ever done on the subject has determined than since the official beginning of the War on Drugs (40 years and 1 Trillion dollars of tax payer dollars later) the availability and potency of drugs has only gone up and prices of drugs have only gone down. But your position as I understand it is we should stay the course with the the same failed policies. Well that is basically the definition of insanity.
BTW, you never answered a single question that I asked, or addressed a single point I made.
Last edited by coolbeans2000; 07-08-2015 at 09:51 PM..
Although it would be a obvious step in the right direction, it's not logical to legalize mere possession and keep distribution illegal. Can you think of a another product that should be legal to own but simultaneously be illegal to sell? unlawful to sell ivory,pharmaceutical drugs, your own organs
And what is the so called myth you speak of?Jails are filled with people busted for possession of pot
Are you saying our prisons aren't over crowded with people for drug related charges?No Over 50 percent of inmates are incarcerated for drug related charges (the majority being for marijuana). The main reason we have the largest prison population in the world is largely due to our drug laws.
Yes, less than 1% of prison inmates are in jail for simple possession. But city and county jails have plenty of them. Almost 26% of the population.
Remember 88% of drug arrests are for possession alone. That wastes an enormous amount of time and resources to process those people through the courts system. There is also the likely loss of a productive member of society if the person loses their job due to the arrest (70% of illicit drug users are employed and 80% are not addicts). Then there is the police officer who we are paying to patrol the streets and keep us safe but is now needlessly tied up spending hours doing paperwork and processing a person for smoking or selling pot.
Finally there is the big question: Did putting that person in jail for whatever time frame (or even just arresting them) stop that person from using drugs again? depends whether they seek recovery in jailUsually never, so what did it accomplish except squander our tax dollars? punishment for breaking the law
Many felons are addicted to drugs. So what? Remember, correlation does not imply causation. Many felons are also alcoholics. Our current drug laws and criminal justice system actually turn drug users into real criminals by sending them through our jail system and exposing them to every type of criminal and criminal activity.
You are right, there is obviously a "financial cost to society" as a result of drug abuse. But that shouldn't be a shocker to any reasonable human being. Not sure what point that is supposed to affirm. There are massive financial costs to society as a result of Obesity. Fat Americans are responsible for 190 Billion of added annual medical expenses. The U.S. Airline industry even burns an additional 350 million gallons of jet fuel (1 Billion dollars annually) due to over weight passengers. Should we outlaw In-N-Out and Carl's Junior? There is a "financial cost to society" for almost everything.
You are also mixing drug use with drug abuse, which is careless. They are entirely different things. Dr. Carl Hart (a renowned neuroscientist) wrote a book called the High Price. In the book he proves that over 80% of illicit drug users are not drug addicts (in the same way that the vast majority of people who consume alcohol are not alcoholics). He also did an interesting Ted talk that I strongly recommend checking out.
You mentioned the problem of making drugs more available. Have you ever heard of a Cocaine addict who doesn't use Cocaine because Cocaine isn't available? Drugs will always be available in our society no matter what reckless policies you enact and no matter how much collateral damage you inflict. For example the U.S. has the biggest, best, most expensive and advanced prison system in the world. We still don't have a single drug free prison.
Practically every study ever done on the subject has determined than since the official beginning of the War on Drugs (40 years and 1 Trillion dollars of tax payer dollars later) the availability and potency of drugs has only gone up and prices of drugs have only gone down. But your position as I understand it is we should stay the course with the the same failed policies. Well that is basically the definition of insanity.
BTW, you never answered a single question that I asked, or addressed a single point I made.
Certainly the War on Drugs has been problematic and hasn't achieved many of the goals it has set out to achieve. But to say we should throw the doors wide open because it's been something other than stellar just doesn't make sense. The more to the point question is whether we'd have been in a better place as a society for the last 40 years and heading into the future if we had thrown the doors open to some or all illegal drugs. Now there are varying perspectives on the answer to that question, but that's the right question to ask. Personally, I don't think we'd be in a better place, but I can respect that others would reach a different conclusion.
It is a commonly used myth that jails are filled with people busted for possession of pot. Even the bible of sex, drugs, rock 'n roll, Rolling Stone Magazine, points this out.
That's why I stated the brownie to friends incident. What constitutes selling can be pretty minor. But, that article states it doesn't lend itself to criminal activity. That's like saying illegal immigration doesn't lend itself to breaking the law. If it's illegal to smoke pot, and you are smoking pot guess what, you are a criminal. You are committing a crime by smoking pot. So, it's an obsolete projection.
Whether it's just a money maker for the state, or a criminal conviction I think with so many people smoking this stuff we should just call it a day and legalize it if the majority of people want to use it. Our justice system should serve the majority of our people, not go against their wishes. It's put in place for that reason.
If we get to the point of policing those things the majority don't want policed then we lose the freedoms of this country.
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unlawful to sell ivory,pharmaceutical drugs, your own organs
