Buying guns without an AZ driver's license? (theatre, tax)

[AzScorpion12]

Originally Posted by RichCapeCod

You may legally purchase a firearm in any state in which you are a resident. If you are a resident of AZ (but not domiciled there for tax purposes -- you have seven months for that) you can go to your local RMV and get an AZ ID card. Same size as a DL, and will serve as identification for purchasing a firearm. I urge you to secure an AZ carry permit as well. This will enable you to purchase firearms in AZ without the hassle of a background check.

I reside in MA and in AZ and purchase firearms in both states. It's perfectly lawful.

Originally Posted by LBTRS

Your information isn't correct.

You can only purchase a handgun in your state of legal residence. Purchasing a handgun in another state would require you to ship it to an FFL in your state of residence to be transferred to you in that state. You can't purchase handguns as a resident in two states at the same time.

If you're in Arizona as a snow bird and none of the below make you a resident you can't legally purchase a handgun and take possession of it without going through an FFL in your state of residence. If you are considered a resident of AZ then you can't legally purchase a handgun in MA.

State law (or state taxes) have nothing to do with this (other than establishing residency) as this is covered by federal law.

Also, one becomes a resident of Arizona when ANY of the following happens and require you to get a drivers license immediately.

"Once you move to Arizona, you'll need to get an AZ driver's license and register your vehicle(s) immediately upon establishing residency.

Arizona considers you a resident when any of the following situations apply:

You work in Arizona.
This does NOT apply to seasonal farm work.
You're a registered voter in AZ.
Your children go to an AZ school and the tuition rate reflects that of a resident.
Your business operates in AZ and operates vehicles in the state.
You have a business that uses vehicles as a transport for goods or passengers in AZ.
You live in AZ for 7 months or more during a calendar year (regardless of whether you claim AZ as your permanent residence)."

Source: Arizona New License Application Info | DMV.org

I have to agree with Rich on this on as I also have an Az. state ID card and so do a lot of my neighbors and have been buying guns in both states for years now. Actually most of my neighbors are Canadians and have been doing this for 7+ years. There's one dealer over in Avondale who's retired LE where I've bought many from and had even asked him about this a few years back. Perfectly legal as long as you're not buying them with the intension of bringing them back to Ma for resale. It's perfectly legal as long as you can prove residence in both states. I have many friends who snowbird in Fl and also do the same for many years.

[HeadhunterPaul]

Originally Posted by ji603

There is always the private party route OP.

ji, a question....

I happened to be reading this thread and I am thinking there is an error here:

A resident of AZ can't legally privately sell a firearm to a a private party who is not an AZ resident, can they?




Thanks,



Paul

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by HeadhunterPaul

ji, a question....

I happened to be reading this thread and I am thinking there is an error here:

A resident of AZ can't legally privately sell a firearm to a a private party who is not an AZ resident, can they?




Thanks,



Paul

there's a lot of fine print and nuance to gun laws - i believe the question you're asking is selling a "firearm", versus selling a handgun.. to my knowledge, as long as the buyer's home state doesn't have their own law against it, you can sell a long-gun private party to them as an az resident.. as an az resident, you can buy long-guns from private parties or even dealers in other states. And it's always been legal to ship a gun from you to yourself from another state..

[RichCapeCod]

Guys, in regard the lawful purchase of firearms, you may lawfully purchase a firearm (long guns or handguns) in any state in which you reside. This is not some interpretation of the law which I imagined.

Around 30 years ago a buddy of mine, who lived on Long Island NY and had a place in Florida, purchased a handgun. At that time I believed he had a problem, purchasing a handgun in his “vacation” state. I, as a law enforcement officer, called the local ATF in New York City (cop there for 20 years, then another 20 years in MA). The agent I spoke to stated that so long as the person is a bonafide resident of the state, and it did not matter how many states you had residence in, you could lawfully purchase firearms in both states according to federal law.

In AZ I’ve purchased three handguns, from two different and very legitimate gun stores, over the last three years. In all cases I used my MA driver’s license for identification, my AZ ID card (to demonstrate AZ residence) and my AZ concealed weapons permit (to not have to have a background check). Perfectly routine, filled out the 4473, no hassle no issue.

Rich

[Sorel36]

Originally Posted by chaparrito

Having said that, if you look at private for sale ads on back page and other sites, virtually all private sellers want in state ID and many will not sell to someone who is not a CCW holder.

Why do they ask for a CCW when AZ allows constitutional carry ?

[AzScorpion12]

Originally Posted by Sorel36

Why do they ask for a CCW when AZ allows constitutional carry ?

To cover their own butt. It's easier to make a fake ID especially with 3D printers out now. CCW permits have to go through state & fed checks and fingerprinted,they're a lot harder to falsify.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by Gixxer1K

To cover their own butt. It's easier to make a fake ID especially with 3D printers out now. CCW permits have to go through state & fed checks and fingerprinted,they're a lot harder to falsify.

lol, my ccw permit doesn't have a picture in it. Pretty sure I could use yours with a private seller & leave them with lots of warm fuzzies in the process. But you're correct that many private sellers want to see one for "protection". If scammers can fake your credit cards, holograms & all, they can certainly fake (or steal) ccw cards. The bottom line is that as a private seller, you're going to get a visit from the feebs if that gun is ever used in a crime - even decades later. But the law doesn't require you to keep any paperwork or demand fingerprints/references/drivers license copies, etc.

[AzScorpion12]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

lol, my ccw permit doesn't have a picture in it. Pretty sure I could use yours with a private seller & leave them with lots of warm fuzzies in the process. But you're correct that many private sellers want to see one for "protection". If scammers can fake your credit cards, holograms & all, they can certainly fake (or steal) ccw cards. The bottom line is that as a private seller, you're going to get a visit from the feebs if that gun is ever used in a crime - even decades later. But the law doesn't require you to keep any paperwork or demand fingerprints/references/drivers license copies, etc.

Interesting,I thought all ccw permits required photos and fingerprint. Like you stated you could just about use anyones then.
I guess I'm use to the way it's done here in the N'east where you need a picture,fingerprint,kidney and DNA sample.

[RichCapeCod]

Folks, this may help clear up the confusion on this issue. From the ATF website:

https://www.atf.gov/file/55496/download

ATF has previously addressed the eligibility of individuals to acquire firearms who
maintain residences in more than one State. Federal regulations at 27 CFR 478.11
(definition of State of Residence), Example 2, clarify that a U.S. citizen with homes in two
States may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State,
purchase a firearm in that State. See alsoATF Publication 5300.4 (2005), Question and
Answer B12, page 179. Similarly, in ATF Ruling 80 - 21 (ATFB 1980 -4, 25), ATF held
that, during the time college students actually reside in a college dormitory or at an off
-campus location, they are considered residents of the State where the on
-campus or off-campus housing is located.

***

Hope this helps the discussion,

Rich

[LBTRS]

Originally Posted by RichCapeCod

Folks, this may help clear up the confusion on this issue. From the ATF website:

https://www.atf.gov/file/55496/download

ATF has previously addressed the eligibility of individuals to acquire firearms who
maintain residences in more than one State. Federal regulations at 27 CFR 478.11
(definition of State of Residence), Example 2, clarify that a U.S. citizen with homes in two
States may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State,
purchase a firearm in that State. See alsoATF Publication 5300.4 (2005), Question and
Answer B12, page 179. Similarly, in ATF Ruling 80 - 21 (ATFB 1980 -4, 25), ATF held
that, during the time college students actually reside in a college dormitory or at an off
-campus location, they are considered residents of the State where the on
-campus or off-campus housing is located.

***

Hope this helps the discussion,

Rich

Yes, you are correct Rich. I was wrong and didn't know about this ruling by the ATF.

Thanks for the correction.