State assistance to low income families reduced to one year (Sun City: renting, limousine)

[William Gordon]

But of course that's your response A. Civil discourse is almost always enhanced by comments like this: "Luckily, Arizona is an open carry state and I just bought my first gun. If they try to kill me, I'll kill them first."

[Akonyo]

Originally Posted by William Gordon

But of course that's your response A. Civil discourse is almost always enhanced by comments like this: "Luckily, Arizona is an open carry state and I just bought my first gun. If they try to kill me, I'll kill them first."

The comment that I was responding to was about someone trying to rob me because they are too poor.

If someone tries to rob me, then they deserve what they get. Not the point of the discussion here.

Was that an attempt to dodge the question that I specifically posed to you?

[WildColonialGirl]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

It's not a matter of punishing kids for their parents' mistakes ... it's a matter of holding people accountable for their actions. You don't procreate when you don't have the financial means to do so. Those who are on public assistance but keep having babies by the barrel are the cold & sick ones as far as I'm concerned ... and very selfish too! Do you honestly like it when your tax money pays for the irresponsible reproductive habits of others? Many of us don't.

Besides, it's not as if state assistance is being eliminated all together. It's reduced from two years to one year, and that's still more than enough time for anybody to be on any type of welfare program. Temporary assistance for those who are down & out and need a helping hand is fine, and this is a good direction for the state to move in. Welfare shouldn't be a permanent income for anybody ... never ever!

Even if the penalty for having a child you couldn't afford was being shot in the head the problem of the child still remains. Do you really want millions of starving children rampaging around the country, growing up wild and with PTSD from the neglect, then becoming adults who have no self control, no social skills, etc? It is pure self interest to ensure that future voting adults are well socialised, well nourished, educated, etc, because you're going to be sharing the streets with them.

[WildColonialGirl]

Originally Posted by MDude25

I didn't say it was "cheap" I said it wasn't as expensive as many people blow it out to be. I have friends and family that have kids and some of them don't make a lot of money and they can raise kids just fine. I don't need to have a child myself to figure this out, when other people's experiences (who make a lot less than I do) can raise a child. Now if you want to provide an upscale or luxury upbringing to your child then yes that can be pricey.

It's not that expensive to have a kid, if you find it expensive then you just don't have any extra money and probably are too poor to even provide for yourself. If two working people can't raise a child then they are failures, plain and simple.

You know how I know you don't have a kid? Because you left childcare off the list of costs, and thought that dobling your food bill would be trivial (although, compared to childcare, food is trivial).

[WildColonialGirl]

Originally Posted by Akonyo

Oh, there's the problem. Bernie Sanders supporter, eh?

Capitalism is the perfect system. The smartest and most capable get the furthest. The best product wins. The best person wins. It's the American way. This is how society progresses. If there is no reward, there will be no progress. Period.

In a socialist society, everyone is paid the same, no matter how much they actually contribute. Absolutely disgusting and, in my opinion, unethical.

So why are you living in America, then? If you moved to, say, Liberia you could really triumph and pay way less taxes. Since roving armed gangs and starving people don't bother you, it would be perfect!

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by Akonyo

You have very narrow and extremely limiting beliefs. In my opinion, this is the single biggest factor in who will be successful in life and who won't be.



You make it sound like you're 65. You're only a few years older than me.

In any event, my profession puts me in contact with many medical doctors and my hobbies/interests puts me in contact with successful entrepreneurs. Many now-doctors failed to get into medical school the first time around. Many successful entrepreneurs have multiple failed businesses. But persistence, resourcefulness, and a good attitude is what really pushes them in that direction. In my travels, I've seen many many people give up at the first sight of trouble or when the realization kicks in that this will be a lot of work.

That's why they fail.

Then, on top of that, you have other races that seem to systemically hold their own people back. This is especially true in the American black and Mexican communities.

I have a friend from my military days that is Mexican. He's an E7 now, working in a great field that will likely net him a $200k/yr job once he hangs it up, but he wasn't always that way. His parents are both drug addicts. His mother would constantly discourage his success, stating "You're Mexican. You're not supposed to be successful." He was able to get passed that nonsense mentally. And, trust me, he is NOT a very smart guy. You would find this out quickly by talking to him. But he's persistent as hell.

This is just one example. I could go on....



Why do you believe that the only way to be successful is to have a job?

The fact is that if someone is determined, they will find a way and won't make excuses. Our current political and economic landscape encourages excuses.



So your coworker made a bad life decision to beat a guy up with a bat. He went to jail for 8 years. He is now, presumably, a felon. He's obviously not a very smart guy to have ever done this in his life. But somehow he manages to earn a living despite being a felon.

Don't you think that just maybe he was a little persistent in searching for jobs until he found one that would have him?

The main way to success IS WITH A JOB FOR MOST PEOPLE. Because opening a business takes a ton of risk and courage, which most people don't have, myself included. Because if you open a business and it fails, which the odds are it will, most new businesses don't succeed, you lose everything and are worse off than you were before you started. Most people, myself included don't want to assume that possible liability

[AzScorpion12]

Originally Posted by William Gordon

Insulting people is always easy, but it's far more interesting to do a little digging for stats that support ones position. Here's a quick look at some corporate welfare numbers that are mind numbing to even the furthest leaning conservative:
1. Tax Breaks for obscene CEO bonuses ($7 billion/year)

2. Tax cuts for luxury corporate jets ($300 million/year)

3. Big oil subsidies ($37.5 billion/year)

4. Pharmaceutical subsidies ($270 billion/year)

5. Capital gains tax breaks ($51 billion/year)

6. Corporate tax subsidies from state and local governments ($80.4 billion/year)

7. Handouts to Big Ag ($18 billion/year)

8. Welfare for Wall Street ($83 billion/year)

9. Export-Import bank subsidies ($112 billion)

10. Federal contracts for the top 200 biggest companies ($880 billion/year)



Staggering numbers. Here's the link to the article

I'm not a fan of some of these but don't hate the player,hate the game! These same rules apply to every corporation which you're free to start and use these same tax advantages. Funny how every election we hear the politicians blaming big business or wall street for something and their the one who is willing to change all this but in reality they're the ones who set these rules and their corporate friends benefit from them. Also,when was the last time you were employed by a poor person?

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

The main way to success IS WITH A JOB FOR MOST PEOPLE. Because opening a business takes a ton of risk and courage, which most people don't have, myself included. Because if you open a business and it fails, which the odds are it will, most new businesses don't succeed, you lose everything and are worse off than you were before you started. Most people, myself included don't want to assume that possible liability

I'm glad you brought this up because a lot of people don't have the b@lls to start a business for these very reasons. That's why I have a hard time with the post above because people now a day complain about corporations and their tax breaks and how evil these corps are! We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and if someone wants to use these tax breaks for their benefit I see nothing wrong with it. Most of these execs have given up a lot to get where they are and risked everything while doing it. Granted some have had it handed to them but for the most part there's a lot that goes into running just a small business that most will never understand.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by Akonyo

I'm a little disappointed to hear you say something like this. You seem like a smart and very knowledgeable person. I follow your threads on various topics in the sub-forum.

Nothing wrong with disagreeing. Some of the smartest people I know disagree with me politically and vice versa. That's a perk of being free to believe what you want.

I don't like taxes as much as the next guy, but if I gotta pay them I'd rather they helped people.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

Nothing wrong with disagreeing. Some of the smartest people I know disagree with me politically and vice versa. That's a perk of being free to believe what you want.

I don't like taxes as much as the next guy, but if I gotta pay them I'd rather they helped people.

Here here 👍

[Prickly Pear]

Hold up guys, I need to grab some popcorn. Anybody else want some?