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Drug use is a victimless crime, where reckless driving can very easily harm others. Let your puritanical beliefs go already
I agree, DRUG USE is a victimless crime. DRUG SALES is where the problems are.
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Originally Posted by jimj
Is it really though? I would highly suggest you need to look into that idea further, maybe ask the family members of drug abusers or the victims of violence due to drug usage/sales... Remember, we KNOW for a FACT (using CO as the example) that black market sales/grows will not go away.
Yes but even according to your other arguments you acknowledge (from the 60 minutes videos), they are growing it to sell IN OTHER STATES.
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Originally Posted by jimj
As for your first argument, your conclusion is flawed as shown in CO. People will in fact go to black market dealers BECAUSE (as you clearly state) it's cheaper, WAYYYY cheaper. Now there will be those who are willing to spend the bucks to go to the potmarts, kind of like those that are willing to pay $200 for a bottle of wine that may or may not be better than the $10 or even $5 bottles but there will be a large group that will be happy going to "Walmart" and pay $3 so the black market will remain alive and well and so will all the problems associated with it.
Using your own analogy concerning Alcohol, why the hell would we want to add another problem to the mix? Just because you want to get stoned and damn the consequences both known and the unintended? Especially when we KNOW some of the issues that are not addressed in the current legislation.
That's just pure selfishness in my opinion.
I won't even bother to address your insults as they are probably just drug induced lashing out.
NO, THATS BULLCRAP, and not only is it false to say, there is ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF OF IT. Stop trying to make such an exaggerated argument.. Its not $200 vs $5. The tax rate is 15% not 4,000% Its $50 compared to $56.25. For the security, quality control, guarantee, ease, variety, assistance, professionalism, etc.. THAT IS WORTH IT.
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Originally Posted by jimj
Not your "buddy" but we can certainly agree on one thing, it is wrong to send someone "to prison" for one joint although, I don't believe that happens here.
For the sake of argument, let's say it does so can't that be fixed without legalizing it? Everyone knows it can so why can't we do that until we gather all the information that's needed to A. Decide if we really should legalize it, B. Craft a proper piece of legislation to limit as many unintended consequences as we possibly can.
That's all, simple right?
AZ law is the same for a sliver of a joint up to 2 pounds. Its 4 months in jail to 2 years. SO YES IT IS HAPPENING.
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Drug War Statistics | Marijuana Statistics | Mexico Drug War Deaths | Drug Policy Alliance
Number of arrests in 2014 in the U.S. for drug law violations: 1,561,231
Number of these arrests that were for possession only: 1,297,384 (83 percent)
Number of people arrested for a*marijuana law violation*in 2015:*643,121
Number of those charged with marijuna law violations who were arrested for possession only: 574,641 (89 percent)
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Originally Posted by azriverfan.
What most don't realize is that it is pretty much legal NOW! Anyone who thinks they can't get medicinal marijuana is truly clueless. There are no strict medical diagnoses that need to be met and many of them are subjective and do not require objective data to prove such as pain, migraines or anxiety. AND anyone can pretty much write for it. It's not limited to medical doctors. In fact, it was reported that physicians (MD, DO) only account for 20% of the providers who write for it. Naturopaths, homeopaths, chiropractors...anyone can write for it and there are plenty of providers who are hurting for business that cater their practice to the marijuana crowd in order to generate business.
I say take out the middle man. Make it legal. Because you are fooling yourself if you think a 21 yo can't walk into a naturopath's office, demand chronic pain and get a card to get weed. The only difference is the person has to the pay the provider a fee to get the card. All you are doing now is making healthcare providers rich.
IIRC it was 40 some % of people who get it for chronic pain (reoccurring pain). Which just states that if you have had ANY pain happen more than once, you qualify for medical purpose. That includes going to see a chiropractor for a $30 adjustment. Then you see your prescribing doctor, or some are telling you which chiropractor to go see real quick then come back, and everyone is covered.
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Originally Posted by jimj
So you freely admit that it's pretty much legal now right? I mean, since anyone (your words) can get it? So, what has that done to the black market? NOTHING. There's still tons of pot flowing across the AZ border.
So there goes that argument right?
You are not "taking out the middle man" you are INSERTING another one (a HUGE money sucking one) causing the costs to rise so people seek out black market CHEAPER pot not to mention open AZ up as a bigger gateway to the states where it's still illegal as is happening in CO.
AGAIN, That SHOULD be a safe assumption to know that most of that is going to other states. If we weren't a border state, that wouldn't be happening here. Again, your cheaper response is really ridiculous when you compare what you are paying for.
THC concentrations typically peak during the act of smoking, while peak 11-OH THC concentrations occur approximately 9-23 minutes after the start of smoking. Concentrations of both analytes decline rapidly and are often < 5 ng/mL at 3 hours.
Following oral administration, THC concentrations peak at 1-3 hours and are lower than after smoking.
When smoked, the short-term effects of cannabis manifest within seconds and are fully apparent within a few minutes, typically lasting for 1–3 hours, varying by the person and the strain of cannabis.
So you freely admit that it's pretty much legal now right? I mean, since anyone (your words) can get it? So, what has that done to the black market? NOTHING. There's still tons of pot flowing across the AZ border.
So there goes that argument right?
You are not "taking out the middle man" you are INSERTING another one (a HUGE money sucking one) causing the costs to rise so people seek out black market CHEAPER pot not to mention open AZ up as a bigger gateway to the states where it's still illegal as is happening in CO.
I can use your same argument against you. If it is legal, where are all the DUI's and increased crime you purport will happen as a result of legalization? It hasn't happened.
Also, it hasn't done anything to the black market because it's expensive to see a doctor and pay nearly $100-200 to get a card and go through the hassle of making an appointment and lying to the provider. However, anyone can essentially get it through legal means if they are willing to go through these steps. It's just that some of you are genuinely that naive and are under some false pretense that you need a chiropractor note or some objective evidence to qualify for medical pot. You don't.
With regard to your second point, the traditional pot found on the black market is more expensive, less potent and is often laced with other drugs. Legal pot is much cheaper, stronger and cleaner. There is no incentive for anyone to purchase weed on the black market. And this removes weed among drugs that criminals sell since there is no longer any demand for it.
What is ironic is pot opponents like yourself made all of the same arguments against medical marijuana. None of your accusations or theories came true as a result of medical pot. It's amusing to see those same arguments being rehashed. Those arguments didn't work the first time but maybe you are hoping they will work this time?
I'm not the least bit fooled by these arguments. This issue really comes to culture and values. It doesn't matter what the evidence shows. Most of you do not want to legalize it because it is against your values. You were raised in an era where drugs were vilified and legalizing it is immoral.
Last edited by azriverfan.; 11-04-2016 at 12:23 AM..
I truly find these remarks to be amusing because it's clear some of these detractors have never smoked pot. 12 hours....seriously!
The other comment that made me laugh is someone argued that when pot is legalized, people will buy it from the black market to save money. So let me get this straight, you are going to go to arrange to meet a dealer to buy cheap looking shredded wheat with seeds that is weak and probably laced with something over going to your local store and buying cheaper weed that is purer and more potent. Yeah, that makes sense.
Last edited by azriverfan.; 11-04-2016 at 12:52 AM..
Duration of Effects: Effects from smoking cannabis products are felt within minutes and reach their peak in 10-30 minutes. Typical marijuana smokers experience a high that lasts approximately 2 hours. Most behavioral and physiological effects return to baseline levels within 3-5 hours after drug use, although some investigators have demonstrated residual effects in specific behaviors up to 24 hours, such as complex divided attention tasks. Psychomotor impairment can persist after the perceived high has dissipated. In long term users, even after periods of abstinence, selective attention (ability to filter out irrelevant information) has been shown to be adversely affected with increasing duration of use, and speed of information processing has been shown to be impaired with increasing frequency of use. Dronabinol has an onset of 30-60 minutes, peak effects occur at 2-4 hours, and it can stimulate the appetite for up to 24 hours.
Significant performance impairments are usually observed for at least 1-2 hours following marijuana use, and residual effects have been reported up to 24 hours.
2 hours?? BULLSH** even dirt weed lasts longer than that, and I like how they say it has effects for hours after but TECHNICALLY , THEY CAN'T SAY it is.
.. Maybe that has something to do with, the most recent reference is almost 15 years old.
When smoked, the short-term effects of cannabis manifest within seconds and are fully apparent within a few minutes,[36] typically lasting for 1–3 hours, varying by the person and the strain of cannabis.[37] After oral ingestion of cannabis, the onset of effect is delayed relative to smoking, taking 30 minutes to 2 hours, but the duration is prolonged due to continued slow absorption
When taken orally (in the form of capsules, food or drink), the psychoactive effects take longer to manifest and generally last longer, typically lasting for 4–10 hours after consumption.[53] Very high doses may last even longer. Also, oral ingestion use eliminates the need to inhale toxic combustion products created by smoking and therefore negates the risk of respiratory harm associated with cannabis smoking.
BULL, 1 hour??? NEVER... you should know better than that, and onset can take a lot longer than a few minutes.
I wasn't saying you are high for 12 hours. I was saying it still has a lingering effect.
I wasn't saying you are high for 12 hours. I was saying it still has a lingering effect.
What is a "lingering effect"? What objective data did they use to qualify and quantify a "lingering effect" You could make that argument for a multitude of substances including antihistamines and argue they have lingering sedative effects hours after it's initial use. The next day after taking Zyrtec (for example), I found myself to be tired driving home and not as attentive. That's a "lingering effect." What about alcohol and memory?
What is a "lingering effect"? What objective data did they use to qualify and quantify a "lingering effect" You could make that argument for antihistamines and argue they lingering sedative effects after hours of use.
I don't recall off my head... After I found out it was working for me, I moved to CA, and had 3 cards there, then came to AZ and have gotten 4 more, even now I haven't used in quite a while. I was steady for a LONG TIME. I will have to search later when I have the time. My only point was that WHEN they develop a test for active use, and there are reasons where people can not legally use; it will be in there system a lot longer than they realize/or want to admit too, just like alcohol.
2 hours?? BULLSH** even dirt weed lasts longer than that, and I like how they say it has effects for hours after but TECHNICALLY , THEY CAN'T SAY it is.
.. Maybe that has something to do with, the most recent reference is almost 15 years old.
BULL, 1 hour??? NEVER... you should know better than that, and onset can take a lot longer than a few minutes.
I wasn't saying you are high for 12 hours. I was saying it still has a lingering effect.
So your response to my sources is they're lying? And they're old? Marijuana isn't some new invention. I do know better than your posts. It often lasts less than 3 hours. I was going to leave it alone but you doubled down on the outrageous claim.
It's common knowledge that peak effects are between 30min to 1hr and most effects subsiding by 4 hours. They haven't invented super weed in the last 15 years. I can tell you I've never heard of a 12hour high from smoking.
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