Prop 205 to Legalize Recreational Marijuana in Arizona (NOV 2016) (eat, design)

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by jimj

As for your first argument, your conclusion is flawed as shown in CO. People will in fact go to black market dealers BECAUSE (as you clearly state) it's cheaper, WAYYYY cheaper. Now there will be those who are willing to spend the bucks to go to the potmarts, kind of like those that are willing to pay $200 for a bottle of wine that may or may not be better than the $10 or even $5 bottles but there will be a large group that will be happy going to "Walmart" and pay $3 so the black market will remain alive and well and so will all the problems associated with it.

Using your own analogy concerning Alcohol, why the hell would we want to add another problem to the mix? Just because you want to get stoned and damn the consequences both known and the unintended? Especially when we KNOW some of the issues that are not addressed in the current legislation.
That's just pure selfishness in my opinion.

I won't even bother to address your insults as they are probably just drug induced lashing out.

Look at you jumping to conclusions Just because I advocate for legalization, I must want to get stoned???? I can't use any drugs, being a truck driver, one failed drug test and you are out of the industry for life. So don't make assumptions buddy. I advocate for legalization, because with drugs illegal, you have people who happen to have a joint in their car going to prison and being cellmates with armed robbers and murderers, who will probably be brutalized and raped for not being a hardened criminal themselves. That is what I want to see come to an end. A drug user is NOT a criminal as far as I'm concerned

[Irish4evr]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Look at you jumping to conclusions Just because I advocate for legalization, I must want to get stoned???? I can't use any drugs, being a truck driver, one failed drug test and you are out of the industry for life. So don't make assumptions buddy. I advocate for legalization, because with drugs illegal, you have people who happen to have a joint in their car going to prison and being cellmates with armed robbers and murderers, who will probably be brutalized and raped for not being a hardened criminal themselves. That is what I want to see come to an end. A drug user is NOT a criminal as far as I'm concerned

I have to question if your sentiment would be as strong if some kid or adult...under the influence, nodded off and clocked your semi at 70 plus miles an hour, in the wrong lane. I sense that is where the compassion would stop and the lawsuits would start.

That law may affect you as a professional driver, however it does not faze the average 4 wheeler. The highway is your work place...do you really want that ? Don't confuse decriminalization with legalization ...they are two different conversations.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by Irish4evr

I have to question if your sentiment would be as strong if some kid or adult...under the influence, nodded off and clocked your semi at 70 plus miles an hour, in the wrong lane. I sense that is where the compassion would stop and the lawsuits would start.

That law may affect you as a professional driver, however it does not faze the average 4 wheeler. The highway is your work place...do you really want that ?

People are much worse drivers under the influence of alcohol than under the influence of marijuana. Alcohol is literally poison, which is what causes you to get drunk. Marijuana only moderately impares you, it is not like heroin or LSD ffs

[Irish4evr]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

People are much worse drivers under the influence of alcohol than under the influence of marijuana. Alcohol is literally poison, which is what causes you to get drunk. Marijuana only moderately impares you, it is not like heroin or LSD ffs

I agree...so at what point does one draw the line. Making something "recreationally legal" does not reduce the potential risk....

[Irish4evr]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

People are much worse drivers under the influence of alcohol than under the influence of marijuana. Alcohol is literally poison, which is what causes you to get drunk. Marijuana only moderately impares you, it is not like heroin or LSD ffs

Here is a hypothetical question perhaps you can answer. Arizona currently has an impairment law, specifically for alcohol, testing procedures are well validated. How long does alcohol remain in the system ?...how long does THC remain "in the system".? What test does the State of Arizona currently have that can prove " beyond any reasonable doubt" that a driver is impaired with a positive THC result in their system and in fact that this caused impairment to the point of not being able to operate a motor vehicle safely?...

It is those questions alone that should raise considerable concern for all involved !

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by Irish4evr

Here is a hypothetical question perhaps you can answer. Arizona currently has an impairment law, specifically for alcohol, testing procedures are well validated. How long does alcohol remain in the system ?...how long does THC remain "in the system".? What test does the State of Arizona currently have that can prove " beyond any reasonable doubt" that a driver is impaired with a positive THC result in their system and in fact that this caused impairment to the point of not being able to operate a motor vehicle safely?...

It is those questions alone that should raise considerable concern for all involved !

One more reason to remove the schedule 1 designation to allow research.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Look at you jumping to conclusions Just because I advocate for legalization, I must want to get stoned???? I can't use any drugs, being a truck driver, one failed drug test and you are out of the industry for life. So don't make assumptions buddy. I advocate for legalization, because with drugs illegal, you have people who happen to have a joint in their car going to prison and being cellmates with armed robbers and murderers, who will probably be brutalized and raped for not being a hardened criminal themselves. That is what I want to see come to an end. A drug user is NOT a criminal as far as I'm concerned

Not your "buddy" but we can certainly agree on one thing, it is wrong to send someone "to prison" for one joint although, I don't believe that happens here.
For the sake of argument, let's say it does so can't that be fixed without legalizing it? Everyone knows it can so why can't we do that until we gather all the information that's needed to A. Decide if we really should legalize it, B. Craft a proper piece of legislation to limit as many unintended consequences as we possibly can.
That's all, simple right?

[jimj]

Originally Posted by Irish4evr

Here is a hypothetical question perhaps you can answer. Arizona currently has an impairment law, specifically for alcohol, testing procedures are well validated. How long does alcohol remain in the system ?...how long does THC remain "in the system".? What test does the State of Arizona currently have that can prove " beyond any reasonable doubt" that a driver is impaired with a positive THC result in their system and in fact that this caused impairment to the point of not being able to operate a motor vehicle safely?...

It is those questions alone that should raise considerable concern for all involved !

Exactly one of the points I've been trying to make. As for the trucker thing, was one for many years and I think people'd be amazed at how many truck drivers do drugs while driving. Everything from pot to good old "road dope" aka meth.
Some of the tweakers/potheads used to scare the living snot out of me having to share the road with them...

[jimj]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

One more reason to remove the schedule 1 designation to allow research.

Absolutely! But that doesn't equate to legalization (at this point anyway).

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by jimj

Not your "buddy" but we can certainly agree on one thing, it is wrong to send someone "to prison" for one joint although, I don't believe that happens here.
For the sake of argument, let's say it does so can't that be fixed without legalizing it? Everyone knows it can so why can't we do that until we gather all the information that's needed to A. Decide if we really should legalize it, B. Craft a proper piece of legislation to limit as many unintended consequences as we possibly can.
That's all, simple right?

What are those unintended consequences?

Here is a potential problem that needs to be taken seriously by residents of this state.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/52leg/2...s/hcr2043p.pdf

This is one of many similar measures being put forth to allow the legislature to retroactively, and concurrently, override the will of voters in these matters.

EXCEPT THAT FOR MEASURES APPROVED AT THE 2016 GENERALELECTION OR LATER, THE LEGISLATURE SHALL NOT HAVE THE POWER TOAMEND AN INITIATIVE OR A REFERENDUM MEASURE APPROVED BY AMAJORITY OF THE VOTES CAST THEREON, UNLESS THE LEGISLATUREAPPROVES THE AMENDMENT BY A GREATER PERCENTAGE OF THE MEMBERS OFTHE LEGISLATURE THAN THE PERCENTAGE OF VOTERS THAT APPROVED THEINITIATIVE OR REFERENDUM MEASURE AND, IF THE INITIATIVE OR REFERENDUM MEASURE WAS APPROVED BY AT LEAST TWO-THIRDS OF THVOTES CAST THEREON, THE AMENDING LEGISLATION FURTHERS THPURPOSES OF SUCH MEASURE
.

This one is pretty egregious:

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/52leg/1...s/hcr2027p.pdf

EXCEPT THAT AN INITIATIVE OR REFERENDUM THAT PROPOSES A LAW THAT CONFLICTS WITH A FEDERAL LAW SHALL BECOME LAW ONLY WHEN APPROVED BY AT LEAST SEVENTY-FIVE PERCENT OF THE QUALIFIED ELECTORS VOTING ON THE MEASURE AND UPON PROCLAMATION OF THE GOVERNOR

Just think about what they are trying to accomplish here. Small government Libertarians at work?

We have a small window of legalizing a lot of things when we have these types of people working for the State. The Bill is imperfect, but it's not entirely useless.