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Old 03-22-2018, 10:33 AM
 
9,196 posts, read 16,677,973 times
Reputation: 11328

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
Three issues: pedestrian not paying attention, driver not paying attention, car not paying attention. Self-driving cars need to be off the road, or this is going to become a common occurrence.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mDxiYguNPI
No, it won't and there's no evidence to support your claim. How about this instead - pedestrians need to not jump in front of moving cars in complete darkness or this is going to be a common occurrence. That at least has some logic behind it.
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Old 03-22-2018, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Ann Arbor MI
2,222 posts, read 2,259,186 times
Reputation: 3174
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitN8V View Post
She jumped out of pure darkness, only visible for one second before impact. You nor I would have been able to stop in time, crosswalk or not.
she didn't "jump out of pure darkness". There were street lights in the area (its part of the 12th largest Metro area in the USA) and what we see on a dashboard cam my not represent what a driver could see with his eyes. Anyone who has ever taken some video with their cell phone has at some point thought it looked better in real life.
And "You nor I would have been able to stop in time," isn't really the point. Could you or I have swerved left enough in time? It sure looks like she was hit by the right side of the car. If so how much "swerve left" would have been enough to miss her or just hit the back of the bike? Or just break her leg?
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Ann Arbor MI
2,222 posts, read 2,259,186 times
Reputation: 3174
I agree that most (all?) of the blame belongs to the pedestrian. But I don't buy the argument that NO human could have avoided it therefore driver-less car technology is as safe or safer than human reaction and anticipation.
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Victory Mansions, Airstrip One
6,783 posts, read 5,094,902 times
Reputation: 9239
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitN8V View Post
She jumped out of pure darkness, only visible for one second before impact. You nor I would have been able to stop in time, crosswalk or not.

We can debate whether or not a human could have avoided the accident from now until the end of time, and it won't matter. The car completely failed under a very simple scenario it is supposed to handle, the equivalent of 1+1=2. This opens up an entire host of questions with respect to their program.
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,393,727 times
Reputation: 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig11152 View Post
I agree that most (all?) of the blame belongs to the pedestrian. But I don't buy the argument that NO human could have avoided it therefore driver-less car technology is as safe or safer than human reaction and anticipation.
The fault is certainly virtually all with the lady.

But the data also shows an utter failure by the AV. This is really the standard and simplest case that exists for the AV. The failure rises to the level of being unthinkable. It raises questions as to whether the UBER vehicle is in fact safe to be on the road.

I would ban all UBER vehicles until such time as it establishes what went wrong and that it is fixed.

This would read only on the UBER implementation.
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:14 AM
 
9,196 posts, read 16,677,973 times
Reputation: 11328
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig11152 View Post
she didn't "jump out of pure darkness". There were street lights in the area (its part of the 12th largest Metro area in the USA) and what we see on a dashboard cam my not represent what a driver could see with his eyes. Anyone who has ever taken some video with their cell phone has at some point thought it looked better in real life.
And "You nor I would have been able to stop in time," isn't really the point. Could you or I have swerved left enough in time? It sure looks like she was hit by the right side of the car. If so how much "swerve left" would have been enough to miss her or just hit the back of the bike? Or just break her leg?
You obviously don't know the area. It's a stretch of Mill Ave. that doesn't see much traffic, so being in the 12th largest metro doesn't mean anything. There's not much over there and it's dark. She was in between the coverage of two street lights, completely unilluminated until in the range of the headlights, giving one second to react. She was doomed the second she stepped into the roadway.
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:15 AM
 
9,196 posts, read 16,677,973 times
Reputation: 11328
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
The fault is certainly virtually all with the lady.

But the data also shows an utter failure by the AV. This is really the standard and simplest case that exists for the AV. The failure rises to the level of being unthinkable. It raises questions as to whether the UBER vehicle is in fact safe to be on the road.

I would ban all UBER vehicles until such time as it establishes what went wrong and that it is fixed.

This would read only on the UBER implementation.
Why would you ban all Uber vehicles?
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
15,467 posts, read 9,156,706 times
Reputation: 20432
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitN8V View Post
No, it won't and there's no evidence to support your claim. How about this instead - pedestrians need to not jump in front of moving cars in complete darkness or this is going to be a common occurrence. That at least has some logic behind it.
There is no evidence to support your claim that she jumped in front of a moving car. In the video she is clearly very slowly walking from left to right across the street. There is no jumping evident in the video. But apparently you don't care about facts like that. Your mind is obviously already made up.
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,393,727 times
Reputation: 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitN8V View Post
Why would you ban all Uber vehicles?
Because their system does not work. We have an example of a total failure. And in the cleanest and simplest of cases. I would not let them back until they explain how it happened and demonstrate that it cannot happen again.

If they can demonstrate that it was some unique failure of this vehicle then you might consider letting them back in.

I find the failure mind blowing.
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:29 AM
 
9,196 posts, read 16,677,973 times
Reputation: 11328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
There is no evidence to support your claim that she jumped in front of a moving car. In the video she is clearly very slowly walking from left to right across the street. There is no jumping evident in the video. But apparently you don't care about facts like that. Your mind is obviously already made up.
Of course she didn't literally jump. I didn't realize it needed elaboration, but I'll humor you. She appeared suddenly, due to the darkness. How does that change anything? How does that now support your claim that "this is going to become a common occurrence"? It certainly hasn't been, so how does this change anything?
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