Article: America’s new great migration in search of lower property taxes (Flagstaff: mortgage, houses)

[bigbuglf]

Originally Posted by jimj

What's interesting is those who are migrating fail to realize that when you calculate the differences between states and take everything into account with a few exceptions in the end they're all about the same cost.

After living in many places coast to coast I realized the states get their money no matter what or no matter how it's calculated.
Some states have no sales tax but higher property/state income taxes. Some have no state income tax but higher sales/property/fuel taxes.
You also have to take into account business taxes as every consumer of said business pays those as well.

Don't be fooled by the smoke and mirrors, they ALL get exactly what they want no matter what or how it's achieved...

Interesting thoughts and worth exploring. I'm curious to know what states you've found as the "few exceptions". Is CA one?

[teddyearp]

Originally Posted by TheTimidBlueBars

Gotta love the author's reappropriation of the term for black people's struggle to escape discrimination and violence for white people who want lower taxes.

What does any of this have to do with race? :smack :

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by jimj

What's interesting is those who are migrating fail to realize that when you calculate the differences between states and take everything into account with a few exceptions in the end they're all about the same cost.

After living in many places coast to coast I realized the states get their money no matter what or no matter how it's calculated.
Some states have no sales tax but higher property/state income taxes. Some have no state income tax but higher sales/property/fuel taxes.
You also have to take into account business taxes as every consumer of said business pays those as well.

Don't be fooled by the smoke and mirrors, they ALL get exactly what they want no matter what or how it's achieved...

Yes, some of what you say is true: places like AZ are not as cheap as people think, the costs are just broken up (kind of like a la carte dining).

However, many states have not been raising taxes enough to go along with their spending and future obligations because to do so would be political suicide. Debt, and kicking the can down the road are the mantra of many local and state governments (and of course the Feds) because to actually tackle the real problems is beyond them (capability and willingness).

[AZ Manager]

Originally Posted by jimj

What's interesting is those who are migrating fail to realize that when you calculate the differences between states and take everything into account with a few exceptions in the end they're all about the same cost.

After living in many places coast to coast I realized the states get their money no matter what or no matter how it's calculated.
Some states have no sales tax but higher property/state income taxes. Some have no state income tax but higher sales/property/fuel taxes.
You also have to take into account business taxes as every consumer of said business pays those as well.

Don't be fooled by the smoke and mirrors, they ALL get exactly what they want no matter what or how it's achieved...

Sure all states get their taxes but not all states spend at the same levels. We have a low income tax, low sales tax, and very low property taxes because as a state we are 33rd in per capital spending but at the same time we have additional revenue sources that other states don't. 22 states we're granted a state land trust but AZ still owns the majority of that original trust, the highest holdings of any of the states granted land trusts. That trust pulls in a significant amount of money every year.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by bigbuglf

Interesting thoughts and worth exploring. I'm curious to know what states you've found as the "few exceptions". Is CA one?

I would say CA and NY are certainly exceptions and outliers as Real Estate, cost of goods and taxes are exorbitant.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by AZ Manager

Sure all states get their taxes but not all states spend at the same levels. We have a low income tax, low sales tax, and very low property taxes because as a state we are 33rd in per capital spending but at the same time we have additional revenue sources that other states don't. 22 states we're granted a state land trust but AZ still owns the majority of that original trust, the highest holdings of any of the states granted land trusts. That trust pulls in a significant amount of money every year.

9.5% is not low sales tax, car registration fees are not cheap and neither are the permit fees that are a must for anything one wants to do here.
There's fees for a lot of things here that don't exist is other places, expensive utilities, for profit fire departments etc.
One must take ALL expenses into account, AZ is just a little more creative about collecting their $$$ than other states.

[AZ Manager]

Originally Posted by jimj

9.5% is not low sales tax, car registration fees are not cheap and neither are the permit fees that are a must for anything one wants to do here.
There's fees for a lot of things here that don't exist is other places, expensive utilities, for profit fire departments etc.
One must take ALL expenses into account, AZ is just a little more creative about collecting their $$$ than other states.

Tax rates/fees/whatever you want to throw in there don't change the fact that AZ is only 33rd for per capita tax spending. We are 31st in kWh cost for electricity but if you look at the total energy picture, natural gas, electric, gas for cars, actual usage of those items, etc., AZ ranks in the bottom 10.

Car registration on new vehicles isn't cheap but my 13 your old car just cost me $17 for emissions and $54.54 for a 2 year renewal, 2 years ago it was only $72.97 for 2 years. If you itemize your taxes then the major part of those fees, $61.72 of the $72.97, are tax deductible too.

I do consider 9.5% to be low but you aren't paying 9.5% except in very specific cities, the state average is only 7.8%. Most places in the Phx metro are under 9%. Guadalupe is way up there but it is like 1 sq mile, does Guadalupe even have any retail stores?

Phx Metro Sales Tax Rates: (5.6% State + 0.7% County + X% City)
9.3%: Buckeye, Carefree, Cavecreek, Youngtown, El Mirage
9.2%: Glendale
9.1%: Litchfield Park
8.9%: Fountain Hills
8.8%: Avondale, Goodyear, Paradise Valley, Tolleson
8.7%: Apache Junction
8.6%: Phoenix
8.55%: Queen Creek
8.5%: Surprise, Wickenburg
8.1%: Peoria, Tempe
8.05%: Mesa
7.95%: Scottsdale
7.8%: Gilbert, Chandler

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by jimj

What's interesting is those who are migrating fail to realize that when you calculate the differences between states and take everything into account with a few exceptions in the end they're all about the same cost.

After living in many places coast to coast I realized the states get their money no matter what or no matter how it's calculated.
Some states have no sales tax but higher property/state income taxes. Some have no state income tax but higher sales/property/fuel taxes.
You also have to take into account business taxes as every consumer of said business pays those as well.

Don't be fooled by the smoke and mirrors, they ALL get exactly what they want no matter what or how it's achieved...

Strange, my total yearly cost went down when I moved to TN. No real balance with CA at all. What "they" want varies from State as to what "they" get. A one party State always will be a loser.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Strange, my total yearly cost went down when I moved to TN. No real balance with CA at all. What "they" want varies from State as to what "they" get. A one party State always will be a loser.

You will notice I said "with a few exceptions"... We looked at moving to TN a few different times and one thing stood out, the consistent low pay among a few other things.

[More Rock]

If everyone moving here does not want to pay property tax, how will the teachers get paid a living wage?