Solar panels in AZ questions (Chandler, Tempe: credit, loans, how much)

[bobsell]

I was told (perhaps incorrectly) that there is some kind of penalty imposed by the electric company if one has solar panels. From what I saw, there is a higher flat monthly rate if one has them.

Are there any penalties for solar panels in AZ? If yes, is it dependent on location (i.e. Tempe, Chandler)?

Also, how much would it cost for solar panels for a roof? Assume my average use would be about the average for a valley home plus 20% and such a system should cover 100%-120% of electric costs.

[AZ Manager]

I wouldn't call it a penalty. Grid tie fees are normal and needed, you are using the grid as your battery pay the grid tie fee and be happy it is so low because they don't make batteries anywhere near as cost effective as the grid tie fee. It is different depending on the electric provider though, SRP is so bad with it you don't want to go solar in SRPs service area.

You also don't really want to go to 100%+ with a solar system. The cost to get from say 90% to 100% it just isn't worth it unless you are going to disconnect from the grid entirely, not really feasible with current batter tech and our summers. My 10.92 kw system cost me $25k, less the fed 30% tax rebate and the $1k AZ tax credit I'm cash in at $16.5k. loans at the time, this time last year, we're at 4.9% so that is a 20 year payment of about $100 a month. The system generates 19k kWh which is about 95% of my usage. My APS bills are about $22-$23 a month, depends on how many billing days, but I'm also grandfathered on the previous solar rates I don't know what the current ones are.

I've got enough credits stored I expect to not have a real APS bill until July and even then I'm expecting it to be under $200 then $80 in Aug, $40 in Sept, and back down to $22 in October, these were my bills Aug-Nov last year without any credits. If I had signed up for a monthly payment I would be spending about $1700 a year on electricity, combined solar payment and APS, which is $1200 less than what I paid a year before I went solar, little over $2900.

If I had gone up to 120% of my consumption I'd have been around $31k or about $4.2k higher cash in. On a loan you are looking at an additional $27.50 a month, $330 a year, and a higher grid tie fee between $4-$8 more a month, $48-$96 a year. Chasing that last $250 a year isn't really worth it; $178 in July on a $200 bill + $58 in Aug on an $80 bill + $18 in Sept on a $40 bill is only $244 in electricity costs.

That is all assuming you even have the tax liability to actually take advantage of the tax rebate. If you don't then you are at a much higher loss. Funny how people with money are the ones able to actually save money with solar but the people who actually need it, poorer communities, can't. Do note the fed tax rebate will begin to drastically diminish really soon and I doubt it will be extended.

[atlaw]

solar is a feelgood but not economical as it's depending on government subsidies to be in the black. It's just not technically ready yet. don't get one. It'll happen some day but no good now

[Hoonose]

Put up solar 2009, and it's about paid off. Credits and discounts are different today. Back then it would not fly without Fed, utility and state supports. The 10Kw $75K system cost me $25K.

It has been about a 10% tax free return, and the value of the solar is not added to your assessment. There are other savings as well, since you don't pay tax or delivery charges on your produced juice. We have net metering, so any excess we make essentially goes back to the grid at retail. March, April May we have excess. Our highest bill $238 since solar. Our electric bills are almost unchanged from the 1980's, same house.

There are some gotya's. Like having to clean the panels once in a while if no rain. My inverters have only a 10 year warranty, and just had one replaced. The newer panels have inverters on each panel, so their warranties come with the panels. 20-25 years.

[bobsell]

So how much would a 90% system cost for a 3BR home?

[jimj]

Originally Posted by Hoonose

Put up solar 2009, and it's about paid off. Credits and discounts are different today. Back then it would not fly without Fed, utility and state supports. The 10Kw $75K system cost me $25K.

It has been about a 10% tax free return, and the value of the solar is not added to your assessment. There are other savings as well, since you don't pay tax or delivery charges on your produced juice. We have net metering, so any excess we make essentially goes back to the grid at retail. March, April May we have excess. Our highest bill $238 since solar. Our electric bills are almost unchanged from the 1980's, same house.

There are some gotya's. Like having to clean the panels once in a while if no rain. My inverters have only a 10 year warranty, and just had one replaced. The newer panels have inverters on each panel, so their warranties come with the panels. 20-25 years.

Let's not forget the new APS Solar rules/fees. Within 10 years they will be paying ZERO for home Solar produced power so basically you'll be giving it to them for free. APS has gone the way of SRP making Solar no good for new buyers. What's now happened is that Solar is purely a lifestyle choice, not a money saving choice.

In today's Solar Power climate I would not put a system on my house. If/when a power storage solution that's economically feasible is available I'd reconsider as you "could" go pretty much off grid.

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by jimj

Let's not forget the new APS Solar rules/fees. Within 10 years they will be paying ZERO for home Solar produced power so basically you'll be giving it to them for free. APS has gone the way of SRP making Solar no good for new buyers. What's now happened is that Solar is purely a lifestyle choice, not a money saving choice.

In today's Solar Power climate I would not put a system on my house. If/when a power storage solution that's economically feasible is available I'd reconsider as you "could" go pretty much off grid.

Certainly depends on your location and electric company. In our situation with Unisource in Havasu solar is still feasible.

[bobsell]

Originally Posted by jimj

Let's not forget the new APS Solar rules/fees. Within 10 years they will be paying ZERO for home Solar produced power so basically you'll be giving it to them for free. APS has gone the way of SRP making Solar no good for new buyers. What's now happened is that Solar is purely a lifestyle choice, not a money saving choice.

In today's Solar Power climate I would not put a system on my house. If/when a power storage solution that's economically feasible is available I'd reconsider as you "could" go pretty much off grid.

Is this the case for the entire state? Or is it in certain areas?

[hikernut]

Originally Posted by jimj

If/when a power storage solution that's economically feasible is available I'd reconsider as you "could" go pretty much off grid.

Probably if that becomes a reality it will be made mandatory to be connected. Sure, one could just ignore the bills, but SRP/APS would just put a lein on the property and eventually get it's money along with interest and late fees.

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by bobsell

Is this the case for the entire state? Or is it in certain areas?

Certain areas.