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Median wage is $17/hr. $18/hr is not going to buy you a 3 bed/2 bath starter home in the Phoenix metropolitan area. Maybe if you move to Maricopa or get a slum house in Maryvale it might work. Now if it's a couple who both make $18/hr, now we are talking. But housing has required dual incomes for a couple generations now now, it's just sad that renting is starting to look like that too.
I don't know honestly, but I know Flagstaff gets more snow than Spokane. Spokane gets about 45" of snow, and Flagstaff approximately 100" of snow. How much in a snowstorm would vary I'd imagine, not sure what that statistic is.
You mention "lush greenery of the West" which is a funny comment, and really only applies to a couple places out here. Western Pacific Northwest and SE Alaska, and Hawaii. Southern California is not green, neither is Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, or Idaho. It's pretty clear where you want to go by this point.
Come visit us as a tourist though, Arizona is a beautiful place.
That wage sucks. It's slightly close to a minimum wage type of job. I am looking for a $50K-$70K wage at least. I'd say forget Arizona. It's a great state at the same time, but it's not suitable for a person like me who needs a job there and wants to live away from the ridiculously hot climate area (otherwise I'd have a long commute to work for that) where all the jobs even are.
What area of IT is your specialty?
Have you done internships?
I would suggest while you are still a youngster, take the BEST job offer no matter the location as this sets your Career, Salary, and Progression for the rest of your career (15-40 years!).
You stay at this first job for 3-4 years and try to continue moving up within the company while LEARNING TO LOVE whatever city you end up in (don't ever waste any time concentrating on the negative!). Now, you have the experience and track record to get a decent job offer in a city you really want to live in. If you have 5-10 years experience and do something along the lines of software development you can EASILY negotiate a work from home agreement if you can find a town with high quality internet.
WRT locations:
I would say Phoenix has many positives - plenty of young people (ASU area, Tempe, Chandler, Gilbert, Phoenix). Sunny weather year round. Affordable moderately low cost of living that an IT Professional should be able to afford EASILY. No IT professional should ever make the median ($17-18/hr). Rent for a 4bdrm 3 bath house with a pool was about 5.5% of our gross (dual income) household. We are both Engineers.
Negatives - 7 to 8 months of hot weather (high electricity bills for AC) with about 3 months of those being virtually unlivable for anyone who hasn't acclimated to those type of temps for several years. I was in the Phoenix area for around 2 years, and had enough of the heat. Very car centric - public transit is lacking and in its infancy. Be ready to drive everywhere (but driving in Phoenix area is super easy).
Seattle has many positives too - I actually don't like a bleak sky of zero clouds and non stop sun baking me to my bones so I loved the 9 to 10 months of cloudy skies. The rain never bothered me and I almost never used an umbrella nor wore a rain coat as it was usually just a light drizzle more than actual raining. Summers RARELY ever had a day over 90 and it would only snow every other year with the weather being very cool, but never cold like it is in the North East. So many outdoor opportunities and I never had a problem meeting friendly people in Seattle or on the Eastside. Definitely an IT paradise.
Negatives - you have to like cloudy weather and not need much sun. If you are an AZ or CA native type - forget about it! Cost of living is ridiculous...even in IT you will barely be able to afford living there unless you are already an EXPERIENCED IT professional who can demand a good salary OR you graduated from a top 20 Computer Science school in the top 20% of your class. You DO NOT WANT TO Commute from the affordable areas into Seattle or the Eastside, but there is a little public transit.
I can't speak about Oregon.
Jobs are fewer in Spokane vs Seattle but cost of living is much lower.
Prescott really is a super retiree haven. I liked the area, but my wife vetoed it when we checked it out because hanging out with retirees was not for her.
I hear that jobs are hard to get in Flagstaff.
Tri-cities Washington may be an area for you to check out.
I kind of feel that the type of person that likes PNW weather will hate AZ weather and vice versa so I find it interesting that your choice was between these two areas.
If you get that job experience under your belt, like I mentioned earlier -> working from home becomes a real option that gives you the ultimate flexibility. My wife and I have been working from home full time for almost 4 years now and it is great if you can set a schedule for yourself and know how to get out and meet people as it gives you the flexibility of working from any city and not caring that much about the job market there.
I’m stuck in Seattle for now but hate it. I can tell you most people have that same idea about Seattle, but most make under $50k a year (yes, even in IT). Many end up working for contract temp agencies and get stuck in that endless loop, the job market is insanely ferociously competitive and companies won’t look ar you without an advanced degree, certifications, and experience, even for entry level gigs.
The weather and people are awful too, and the COL is seriously LA (or worse) levels. The median home prices are around $1m and that’s not getting you much, a moldy old 900sqft dump near highway 99 built in 1929. Most people here commute like they do in LA, 2hrs each way is not uncommon and I think these things contribute to how uptight and miserable most people you’ll interact with at work, out doing things, etc. also tons of homeless and drug addicted losers here, but often times you can’t tell the homeless from the average person as hygiene isn’t even a thought for most of the natives.
My advice is don’t believe the hype, all these “best places for x and y” articles really don’t tell the entire story, people come in and out so often, hence why it is such a boom and bust real estate market
Yeah a college degree is useless these days. Grad school would be better or trade school would have been better. I don't want to go to grad school. I had ENOUGH of school and living in NJ.
I am in an IT internship right now and I will go for my Comptia Security+ Certification.
People exaggerate about the PNW being expensive, because there are cheap places if you are further away from Seattle. I don't plan on living in a city or too close to a city anyways. I also want a small + cheap house (I don't plan on having kids and I don't need a large home), which you can easily find anywhere if you look on Zillow.
Your description of the PNW sounds miserable. A 2 hour commute is what my uncle from the SF Bay Area goes through every day and he has absolutely no time to have fun outside of work. I should probably consider somewhere outside the PNW. I even thought about the Reno area or the less populated areas of northern California above the metro areas.
Wow, I have heard this said about the PNW by a couple of other people before, but just thought they had a bad experience?! It looks like such a beautiful place it's hard to imagine people being that uptight. However, if there's anything that can make one uptight it would be finances and an extremely high COL.
Me to, I thought it was beautiful, but I did not visit during the gloomy winter times to see how nasty the winters can be. I also did not see a lot of traffic in Seattle even though I was visiting on weekdays. I did not visit long enough to see the reality of the place. I felt like that on most of my vacations, because most of my vacations were short since my parents aren't traveling fans.
When we first immigrated to this country the Federal government made us live in New Jersey for five years. I understand your pain of living in such a god-awful place.
However, you don't really understand the west until you have lived in various parts of it.
I currently live in "eastern PNW" and also have a winter place in Arizona. I have lived and worked throughout the west, mostly in very rural areas. Lots of places I thought I would love living.....ended up hating it. Places that I didn't want to consider, ended up being the places I really enjoyed.
The east has a diversity of people that changes in a few miles. Out west, not only do the people change, but so does the climate.
My primary house in "eastern PNW" gets a bit of snow every year. Mostly, about a couple of inches, but some winters it only rains. I don't even own a snowblower.
Ten miles away, I have a vacation home. Year after year, maximum snow depth tops out at about four feet and my plowing bill run somewhere between 500 and 1,000 dollars a winter.
It even snows once a year in my winter place in Arizona out in the desert.
However, western Oregon and Washington have the worst weather in the lower 48 with the exception of Maine. It is nine months of cold, wet, cloudy weather. Three months of nice weather on most days.
Most urban parts of Arizona on the other hand, have nine months of pretty decent weather, with three months of hot weather.
It really is hard for someone that is living in New Jersey to understand the west and its climates and people.
My advice....is get a job with lots of traveling early in your career. After a bit you will have enough information to chose a place that is heaven for you.
PS...yes, the Northwest is the most uptight, unfriendliest place I have lived. I think is was all the immigrants from Sweden and Norway.
I probably should consider other areas to live. It seems like the Northwest can either really suck, or be extremely great. It's usually a 50/50 thing I hear from the internet.
I see a problem. You visited the PNW in August. Go there in January when it's cold and rainy as it is most of the year. It's easy to like the PNW in August. Starting around the middle of September all the way to May or so, it is typically cold and wet. It gets old VERY quickly.
I lived in Oregon for 25 years. I met my wife there, had my kids there and opened several businesses there. I don't regret my time there but I never got used to the weather.
After my kids grew up and my wife died, the incessant rain and the constant gloomy grey skies finally drove me away. I looked for blue skies and warm temps so here I am and it was the best move I've ever made. For me, the heat is far easier to deal with than the cold, windy, wet weather.
Also, the COL is insane in the PNW. Housing is absolutely stupid expensive and food is outrageously expensive.
I'm not necessarily saying Arizona is the best place for you as it was for me, I'm saying that you need to do a LOT more research on the PNW to be able to make an informed decision.
The PNW is an acquired taste. The weather is a concern and the higher wages get eaten up fast with the higher COL.
For my money, well being and piece of mind, Arizona was the best choice for me. I wouldn't live in the PNW for anything but thats just me.
The PNW does have cheaper places as you go further away from Seattle, but another user on here told me that commuting from affordable areas to Seattle is not a good idea.
Your description of the PNW sounds similar to what I think of NJ. Housing is expensive (for the crappy quality of life and crappy lifestyle), food is sometimes expensive, higher wages (in my IT field) get eaten up fast and the only IT jobs are in the crappy urban areas of NJ which are a pain to drive to, and most jobs don't pay enough to satisfy the cost of living here. If I stayed in NJ, I would never be able to live in NJ forever, because IT jobs are impossible to get, and pay in NJ doesn't satisfy the cost of living unless you stand out really really well and get a decent job. Most people who live in NJ own fancy cars, have large houses, and big land, which probably means most NJ people have nice jobs.
If you are willing to do DoD contract IT work or government civilian IT work, Southeast Arizona has Fort Huachuca, which is right next to the city of Sierra Vista. There is a lot of available enterprise level work. The pay is not as high as some IT hotspots but it is still very well above a majority of career fields in this nation. While I could make more elsewhere, I still make low 6 figures here as a mid-career (albeit upper end of mid-career) IT professional.
Combined with the relatively low COL in comparison to big IT hubs, beautiful scenery, and gorgeous climate, the biggest drawback for young folks may be that Sierra Vista is not exactly a hub for single, young professionals seeking big city attractions. You'd need to drive an hour to Tucson, or live there and commute. There is similar work available in Tucson, though not nearly as plentiful.
The "young folk" population is somewhat important to me when living somewhere. That's one of the reasons why I'd want to forget AZ. Another reason to forget AZ is that you need to live in the super hot climate to even have access to a job.
Most people who live in NJ own fancy cars, have large houses, and big land, which probably means most NJ people have nice jobs.
The only conclusion I would draw from this statement is that most people in NJ do big spending...
fancy car
large house
big land
Those are the highest cost things you can run into in life...(next would be spending on food - restaurant + grocery).
Also, I would think you are comparing people in their 40s and 50s to yourself...i.e. well established people with long career track records and many years of earning salaries and paying for those "fancy things".
Personally, I prefer budget housing, old + cheap cars, and to keep most of our salary for ourselves (not give our salary away to companies).
Those people you see, could very well make very good salaries, or could be living paycheck to paycheck stressed to the hilt. I'd imagine there is a little of both in those neighborhoods. However, comparison is the thief of joy. Don't worry about keeping up with the Joneses and worry more about getting full satisfaction out of your own life.
Eastern WA mostly has moderate to low snow. Except for a few spots at elevation mainly in north central and northeast WA but also extreme southeast corner. If you are looking at the bigger cities this isn't an issue.
If you are attracted to PNW and Arizona, I'd ask what about Boise, Reno, Bend, Grand Junction, Albuquerque / Rio Rancho / Los Alamos? Or somewhere on the Colorado front range?
Yeah I am sick of the large amount of snow we get NJ. Anything above 2-3 inches per storm is something I don't want.
I wouldn't consider Boise, because I heard Idaho is a white supremacist type of state.
After reading your comment, I looked into the Reno area (in both CA and NV) on Google Earth and seems like a good area to live in. Not too urbanized and not too exurban. I like it! But I never visited it!
I thought about Albuquerque area. Are there are a lot of young people in NM and with NM's small population, is it possible to grow social life out there? I am so used to NJ being so densely populated.
Forget Colorado, too much snow like the East Coast.
What area of IT is your specialty?
Have you done internships?
I would suggest while you are still a youngster, take the BEST job offer no matter the location as this sets your Career, Salary, and Progression for the rest of your career (15-40 years!).
You stay at this first job for 3-4 years and try to continue moving up within the company while LEARNING TO LOVE whatever city you end up in (don't ever waste any time concentrating on the negative!). Now, you have the experience and track record to get a decent job offer in a city you really want to live in. If you have 5-10 years experience and do something along the lines of software development you can EASILY negotiate a work from home agreement if you can find a town with high quality internet.
WRT locations:
I would say Phoenix has many positives - plenty of young people (ASU area, Tempe, Chandler, Gilbert, Phoenix). Sunny weather year round. Affordable moderately low cost of living that an IT Professional should be able to afford EASILY. No IT professional should ever make the median ($17-18/hr). Rent for a 4bdrm 3 bath house with a pool was about 5.5% of our gross (dual income) household. We are both Engineers.
Negatives - 7 to 8 months of hot weather (high electricity bills for AC) with about 3 months of those being virtually unlivable for anyone who hasn't acclimated to those type of temps for several years. I was in the Phoenix area for around 2 years, and had enough of the heat. Very car centric - public transit is lacking and in its infancy. Be ready to drive everywhere (but driving in Phoenix area is super easy).
Seattle has many positives too - I actually don't like a bleak sky of zero clouds and non stop sun baking me to my bones so I loved the 9 to 10 months of cloudy skies. The rain never bothered me and I almost never used an umbrella nor wore a rain coat as it was usually just a light drizzle more than actual raining. Summers RARELY ever had a day over 90 and it would only snow every other year with the weather being very cool, but never cold like it is in the North East. So many outdoor opportunities and I never had a problem meeting friendly people in Seattle or on the Eastside. Definitely an IT paradise.
Negatives - you have to like cloudy weather and not need much sun. If you are an AZ or CA native type - forget about it! Cost of living is ridiculous...even in IT you will barely be able to afford living there unless you are already an EXPERIENCED IT professional who can demand a good salary OR you graduated from a top 20 Computer Science school in the top 20% of your class. You DO NOT WANT TO Commute from the affordable areas into Seattle or the Eastside, but there is a little public transit.
I can't speak about Oregon.
Jobs are fewer in Spokane vs Seattle but cost of living is much lower.
Prescott really is a super retiree haven. I liked the area, but my wife vetoed it when we checked it out because hanging out with retirees was not for her.
I hear that jobs are hard to get in Flagstaff.
Tri-cities Washington may be an area for you to check out.
I kind of feel that the type of person that likes PNW weather will hate AZ weather and vice versa so I find it interesting that your choice was between these two areas.
If you get that job experience under your belt, like I mentioned earlier -> working from home becomes a real option that gives you the ultimate flexibility. My wife and I have been working from home full time for almost 4 years now and it is great if you can set a schedule for yourself and know how to get out and meet people as it gives you the flexibility of working from any city and not caring that much about the job market there.
I have a network security specialty. I am doing an IT internship right now. It's an unpaid basic internship.
What does WRT stand for?
I agree with your wife, I cannot live in a retiree haven. NJ is kind of like that. Forget AZ. AZ ain't livable for me.
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