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Interesting, the surge in household debt per-capita in the state of Arizona compared to other states.
I think it just shows the tremendous optimism in Arizona.
Arizonans sure aren't shy about taking on debt. There are alot of affluent people who are taking at loans at very low interest rates who could pay cash, but there are many Arizona residents who are not shy about taking out tremendous debt.
Arizona in 2021 feels so much like Las Vegas. There is anything goes mentality. It's sort of exciting to observe because it feels like this state could go either way.
The debt balance per-capita is $20,000 more in Arizona compared to states like Michigan and Ohio that have higher per-capita incomes.
Interesting, the surge in household debt per-capita in the state of Arizona compared to other states.
I think it just shows the tremendous optimism in Arizona.
Arizonans sure aren't shy about taking on debt. There are alot of affluent people who are taking at loans at very low interest rates who could pay cash, but there are many Arizona residents who are not shy about taking out tremendous debt.
Arizona in 2021 feels so much like Las Vegas. There is anything goes mentality. It's sort of exciting to observe because it feels like this state could go either way.
The debt balance per-capita is $20,000 more in Arizona compared to states like Michigan and Ohio that have higher per-capita incomes.
Most of the debt is mortgages and Arizona now has high housing costs compared to Michigan and Ohio. NJ has much higher incomes but they also have much higher state taxes which lowers that income available after taxes....NJ average property taxes for example are $8500 in NJ and $1900 in Arizona.
Interesting, the surge in household debt per-capita in the state of Arizona compared to other states.
I think it just shows the tremendous optimism in Arizona.
Arizonans sure aren't shy about taking on debt. There are alot of affluent people who are taking at loans at very low interest rates who could pay cash, but there are many Arizona residents who are not shy about taking out tremendous debt.
Arizona in 2021 feels so much like Las Vegas. There is anything goes mentality. It's sort of exciting to observe because it feels like this state could go either way.
The debt balance per-capita is $20,000 more in Arizona compared to states like Michigan and Ohio that have higher per-capita incomes.
At least for us we're living a life that we could only dream of had we stayed in New York. Back there it wasn't living it was existing.
The property taxes on our 1100 sq. ft. 3 bdr. 1 bth. home in the litter strewn semi run down City of Peekskill was around $12,000 a year. That was over 11 years ago. God only knows what they are now?
Most of the debt is mortgages and Arizona now has high housing costs compared to Michigan and Ohio. NJ has much higher incomes but they also have much higher state taxes which lowers that income available after taxes....NJ average property taxes for example are $8500 in NJ and $1900 in Arizona.
I don't know, but who the hell would want to live in Michigan, Ohio and especially New Jersey? I've been through Ohio on 6 cross country trips all by rail and drove through it when we moved. It just doesn't seem like the kind of state that too many people would want to plan a vacation to? I've been to a lot of places throughout New Jersey. As far as New Jersey goes, I'd consider it to be the arm pit of America. Especially it's metro area. It's what they call a "blivit" (10 lbs. of excrement in a 5lb. can).
Parts of Trenton, Sewerk (Newark) Passaic, Patterson and especially Camden resemble Dresden after World War Two. Of course there are some nice places too in New Jersey as there are in every state. But whenever I think of New Jersey all that comes to mind is congestion, filth and the chemical plants in Linden, and Carteret all they way down to Perth Amboy.
I don't know, but who the hell would want to live in Michigan, Ohio and especially New Jersey? I've been through Ohio on 6 cross country trips all by rail and drove through it when we moved. It just doesn't seem like the kind of state that too many people would want to plan a vacation to? I've been to a lot of places throughout New Jersey. As far as New Jersey goes, I'd consider it to be the arm pit of America. Especially it's metro area. It's what they call a "blivit" (10 lbs. of excrement in a 5lb. can).
Parts of Trenton, Sewerk (Newark) Passaic, Patterson and especially Camden resemble Dresden after World War Two. Of course there are some nice places too in New Jersey as there are in every state. But whenever I think of New Jersey all that comes to mind is congestion, filth and the chemical plants in Linden, and Carteret all they way down to Perth Amboy.
Just because you wouldn't want to vacation there, doesn't mean it isn't a great place to live and raise a family. Not everyone wants to live in a touristy vacation area.
There are parts of Michigan that are extremely beautiful. Pretty much anywhere along the shoreline, especially up north as Sno mentioned. I'm inclined to agree on NJ and Ohio, however, and mid-Michigan can feel pretty dull.
AZ is pretty favorable in terms of property and income tax, which drew me in. I couldn't fathom paying half a mortgage payment in property tax. There's complex financial factors at play in every state, and I think AZ has one of the better setups in my personal situation. I wouldn't call it super 'affordable' in the general sense - you can typically get a house for cheaper anywhere between here and the eastern seaboard, but there's plenty of tradeoffs. For a major city in the western third of the country, it's still pretty much a better value than Seattle, Portland, the Bay, LA, SD, Denver, and SLC at least in housing prices and tax situation. Obviously YMMV.
Just because you wouldn't want to vacation there, doesn't mean it isn't a great place to live and raise a family. Not everyone wants to live in a touristy vacation area.
There's a lot of people that would not want to live in a variety of different places for a variety of different reasons. That's pretty obvious as everyone's needs and desires are different. Most of the people that I know that have fled New York went to Florida. I've never had any desire for Florida, the southeast or the north or midwest.
Maybe Ohio is a great place to live and raise a family? A lot of state's are, it all depends on where you live in any particular state. I've yet to hear of too many people planning on vacationing in Ohio? It's flat and not much different than western New York. Except New York has the Adirondack and Catskill Mountains. I'd much rather live in a place with spectacular scenery and great weather. Arizona has an abundance of both. There's a reason why Arizona attracts a lot of tourists and vacationers. My wife and I could have lived anywhere we wanted and chose Arizona because we both love the Great American Southwest over anyplace else in the entire United States. Knowing what we know now and after living here you could not pay me enough money to live anywhere else.
As far as Northern Michigan goes from those pictures it doesn't look too much different than upstate New York either. It's beaches and dunes are no different than Long Island. Except the winters of Northern Michigan are probably worse than New York's or at the very least are similar to upstate New York because of lake affect snow.
I've been in upstate New York during the winter more than once and it's God awful. Downstate is only slightly better. Sometimes when it snows further upstate we'd get a lot of freezing rain and ice. When it's not snowing it's usually dismal, dank and dreary. It reminds me of death. The roads stay filthy for months on end and into the spring from all of the salt that they throw down. If you don't take exceptional care of your vehicle it'll rust out within a few years as the salt gets into everything. The fall colors are nice, but it's just a reminder that winter's just around the corner. Back there you just can't wait for the spring. Except the summer's are hot and muggy. If you don't douse yourself in insect repellant you'll get eaten alive by mosquitoes.
I've been through 38 different state's both by rail and driving back and forth from New York to Arizona several times as I refuse to fly. Although not perfect you can get a general idea of what those state's are like. Obviously I've been all throughout the Northeast because I've lived there for the greater part of my life.
I don't know, but who the hell would want to live in Michigan, Ohio and especially New Jersey? I've been through Ohio on 6 cross country trips all by rail and drove through it when we moved. It just doesn't seem like the kind of state that too many people would want to plan a vacation to? I've been to a lot of places throughout New Jersey. As far as New Jersey goes, I'd consider it to be the arm pit of America. Especially it's metro area. It's what they call a "blivit" (10 lbs. of excrement in a 5lb. can).
Parts of Trenton, Sewerk (Newark) Passaic, Patterson and especially Camden resemble Dresden after World War Two. Of course there are some nice places too in New Jersey as there are in every state. But whenever I think of New Jersey all that comes to mind is congestion, filth and the chemical plants in Linden, and Carteret all they way down to Perth Amboy.
Well I completely agree with you, I was just addressing the OP statements. I would say though that NJ sure does have a high per capita income.
There are parts of Michigan that are extremely beautiful. Pretty much anywhere along the shoreline, especially up north as Sno mentioned. I'm inclined to agree on NJ and Ohio, however, and mid-Michigan can feel pretty dull.
AZ is pretty favorable in terms of property and income tax, which drew me in. I couldn't fathom paying half a mortgage payment in property tax. There's complex financial factors at play in every state, and I think AZ has one of the better setups in my personal situation. I wouldn't call it super 'affordable' in the general sense - you can typically get a house for cheaper anywhere between here and the eastern seaboard, but there's plenty of tradeoffs. For a major city in the western third of the country, it's still pretty much a better value than Seattle, Portland, the Bay, LA, SD, Denver, and SLC at least in housing prices and tax situation. Obviously YMMV.
Indeed it is. But what drew me in was pretty much a lifelong desire to live in the Great American Southwest. It just fascinates me. The costs of living, gun laws and overall freedom as compared to New York was also a major factor.
We ended up buying our first house in not the greatest part of Westchester County. But it was what we could afford. The town we grew up in along the Hudson River was once all middle class. There was a couple of large estates with a lot of acreage with huge mansions that resembled castles on the Rhine. Once the owners died those castles mysteriously burned down and the property was sold to developers who divided the property up and put in multi million dollar homes, townhouses and condo's. Soon after the town was no longer affordable. Because of it's close proximity to New York City it became a commuters paradise.
There was never any big box stores and all of the traffic and congestion that goes with them. Just a quiet little town along the Hudson with a Main Street lined with a few small family owned stores. Now even the crappiest house was way out of our reach. These were homes that were once owned by blue collar families. My wife and I knew just about everyone who lived in them. The fact that you could just walk to the train station made those once middle class homes attractive to people with high paying jobs in the city. These are homes with less than 1/10th of an acre alternate side of the street parking and just an alleyway between them. They now go for between $800,000 to $1,000,000.
We never spent beyond our means and paid off our home in 18 years. We first started off with a 30 year mortgage and 3 years later refinanced it to a 15 year mortgage. Our first mortgage was at an 11 1/2% interest rate our 2nd was at 8 1/4%.
Before we moved here I figured out what I could realistically get for our New York home. Then figured out what our total moving costs would be. I deducted those costs from the price of our home and used the balance to buy a home outright in Arizona. We bought an older home that was built in the 70's in an older neighborhood. Again we only bought what we could afford. We haven't had any debt since '98 when our old home was paid off. However the costs of living in New York and taxes did not leave us with much of anything else. Anything extra went to the giant cesspool of corruption which is New York's state and local governments and public education system. It wasn't living it was existing.
Well I completely agree with you, I was just addressing the OP statements. I would say though that NJ sure does have a high per capita income.
Indeed it does. But that's mostly in the New York metro area. Which coincidentally happens to be in the crappiest part of New Jersey. For the most part it's an overcrowded, noisy, filthy, smelly, cesspool. Of course not all of New Jersey is like that but it's not a very big state area wise and you don't have to drive too far to be in the midst of all the filth. We have friends that inherited their family's home on the Jersey Shore and I've driven down there to visit them on several occasions.
Camden which is right across the Delaware River from Philadelphia or "Philthy" as we like to call it resembles Hiroshima or Dresden with block upon block of litter, rubble and burned out row houses. Some people are still living in them. Check out these pictures that you can scroll through below:
The thing about having a high per capita income is that it doesn't get you very much due to the astronomical costs of living in the New York, New Jersey metro area. $150,000 a year doesn't go very far for a family of four. We couldn't afford to have children as both of us had to work to be able to afford to buy a house. Rents aren't cheap either as the property taxes are passed on down to the tenants along with all the other costs of maintaining an apartment that they do not even own.
Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 09-07-2021 at 06:42 PM..
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