Aircraft Noise

[Tanque Verde]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Ponderosa is a (young, LOL) retired engineer with post-graduate degrees in engineering and business. Ponderosa had a long, rewarding career in the design and construction of large scale projects in the Southwest US some of which have improved and, indeed, made possible your life in this area. Ponderosa got paid for it so thank yous are not necessary. Ponderosa has been recognized for contributions to the growth and development of the Salt River Valley, has published professional papers in well-recognized journals and is well-respected among peers. How about you, TV?

Ponderosa occasionally gets tired of the banal posts on the forum and tosses out a somewhat controversial perspective for kicks. The art of intelligent discussion seems to elude you, but it can be quite rewarding if you give it a chance.

Well then Mr. Bigshot.

Quality of life issues are currently being discussed in a couple of threads on this forum, so I invite you to jump in anytime with meaningful discussions on how we can improve said quality of life issues without the wholesale bankrupting of local and state governments.

In addition to that, we want to remain business friendly so we don't have to worry about economic disasters the likes of which cannot easily be described.
We need only look to places like Las Vegas, California and Detroit, where unemployment runs rampant and government services are on the verge of collapse due to poor planning & out of control government spending.

[Ritchie_az]

I still haven't heard a good proposal as to where this "new Sky Harbor" will be located, and where the billions of dollars are going to come from to pay for it. Or what happens when "the outskirts" aren't the outskirts anymore. Or how Sky Harbor is not safe (when was the last crash from an aircraft into or out of Sky Harbor?).
Ponderosa is complaining to complain (which he or she does a lot here). Reminds me of a New Wave song by Terry Taylor:
Please sit up straight at the table
And eat your words
You're much too weak
I think complaining is a crime
And like the boy who cries wolf
We don't believe you anymore, we watch you
Travel back in time to...
Take too many trips down memory lane
You take too many trips down memory lane
You take another trip down memory lane
You go down there once too often and you're likely to remain

Phoenix will never be as it was when you moved here in the '70's, which is something I'm quite glad about. In fact, if Phoenix had been stagnant over the last 30 years, I doubt you'd like it nearly as much as you claim you would.

[fcorrales80]

These are actually valid points on both sides. Ponderosa makes some good points as do the rest of you. Sky Harbor should not be moved. As for downtown development, the only interference from flight paths is building height. Currently downtown is limited to 525 ft. Midtown and Uptown have higher limits understandably. Phoenix doesn't need a towering downtown but a dense downtown. City planners have actually sought to located the tallest building proposals (like the failed 1,800ft Phoenix Tower from the 1980's) in midtown.

Before the WTC in Manhattan, the tallest building was the Empire State Building in Midtown Manhattan and NOT downtown Manhattan. After 9/11 this is once again true. Tall, dense building can occur downtown and super-tall or very tall skyscrapers can always rise in Uptown or Midtown. With Sky Harbor I believe freight services should be moved to the feeder airports. UPS, FEDex, and USPS flights should be diverted to Deer Valley and Williams leaving more room for commercial flights at Sky Harbor. Also, the airport is a city run facility...I am not sure moving it south near Casa Grande is even possible. It would be on a reservation and negotiating with the tribe would be a hassle and expensive not to mention a loss of revenue the city does NOT want to lose.

The airport and federal government are investing a huge chunk of change to build an automated people mover (monorail) that will link the airport and leave room for expansion. I doubt the city would be building this if they didn't see more possibilities and profitability from the airport. These airport projects are all "self supported" and no city taxes are used in its development which is a bonus for the city and the entire metro region.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

There are actually valid points on both sides. Ponderosa makes some good points as do the rest of you. Sky Harbor should not be moved. As for downtown development, the only intereference from flight paths is building height. Currently downtown is limited to 525 ft. Midtown and Uptown have higher limits understandable. Phoenix doesn't need a towering downtown but a dense downtown. City planners have actually sought to located the tallest building proposals (like the failed 1,800ft Phoenix Tower from the 1980's) in midtown. Before the WTC in Manhattan, the tallest building was the Empire State Building in Midtown Manhattan and NOT downtown Manhattan. After 9/11 this is once again true. Tall, dense building can occur downtown and super-tall or very tall skyscrapers can always rise in Uptown or Midtown.

With Sky Harbor I believe freight services should be moved to the feeder airports. UPS, FEDex, and USPS flights should be diverted to Deer Valley and Williams leaving more room for commercial flights at Sky Harbor. Also, the airport is a city run facility...I am not sure moving it south near Casa Grande is even possible. It would be on a reservation and negotiating with the tribe would be a hassle and expensive not to mention a loss of revenue the city does NOT want to lose.

Always the peacemaker.

[Grannysroost]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Near Casa Grande. How are they paying for the expansions? Bonds? Selling all the land the city of Phoenix had to buy up for noise and safety zones around Sky Harbor? Other cities have done it. It would employ many, many, and be a boost to the economy. Think of the possibilities for that area, the riverbed if the airport were gone.

Hah...we are in the flight path for Casa Grande...not quite as close in the last week, but still....I think I have always lived in a flight path whether intentional or not...hubby is a pilot I just deal with it, but cannot believe the air traffic down here with the heat....

[Ritchie_az]

"UPS, FEDex, and USPS flights should be diverted to Deer Valley and Williams"

Good idea, but probably the wrong airports. Goodyear has the strongest chance, I think, as far as Phoenix area airports go. I hear there is an interest in locating a freight hub in Tucson (at TUS and/or Pinal Airpark). I think it will happen, it'll be interesting to see which airport(s) is/are chosen.

[Cyborg13]

Bad idea to move UPS and FedEx. You move them to the outskirts of town, and you sacrifice service levels to the other parts. You think either could do 1030 service to Peoria and Surprise if the ramps were at Williams? Not to mention they account for less than 3% of daily air traffic there.
I do work at the air cargo ramp at Sky Harbor. Bad bad idea. That and FedEx and UPS fly larger aircraft than any of the passenger carriers at Sky Harbor, except for an occasional transient flight or route upgrade.

[ElkHunter]

A couple of people have decided this was their personal area to argue back and forth with OFF TOPIC posts. As such, a couple of people have ruined it for the rest. As such.

Thread closed!