Filial Piety is why China had remained stagnant for 2000 years (dangerous, people)
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So anything that is not completely original does not count as "innovation." So be it. Only in your book. Care to re-invent the wheel for us?
"Everyday trinkets" - do you have any idea how much R&D is involved in researching, developing, and building those "trinkets" that you use everyday for granted? Japan, one of the first nations to single-handedly develop and build bullet trains in 1957 and the first Maglev trains that reached speeds of 500 km/hr by 1979... I'm not even Japanese and don't even want to start to unravel the myopic ignorance displayed by certain posters on this thread.
The Japanese did not build the bullet trains because they succumbed to the need for novelty, the need to know the unknown, the need to explore the unexplored.
I did not say that innovation has to be original. In fact, paper is as original as you can get. I merely stressed the motivation behind the innovation.
Most of the ancient Chinese inventions were motivated by necessity. Virtually all of the modern Japanese and Koreans electronics are motivated by profit.
Going to moon was purely a need to explore the unexplored.
I believe that, like Europeans, the Chinese too have curiosity, but unlike the Europeans, the Chinese are held back by filial piety.
The Japanese did not build the bullet trains because they succumbed to the need for novelty, the need to know the unknown, the need to explore the unexplored.
I did not say that innovation has to be original. In fact, paper is as original as you can get. I merely stressed the motivation behind the innovation.
Most of the ancient Chinese inventions were motivated by necessity. Virtually all of the modern Japanese and Koreans electronics are motivated by profit.
Going to moon was purely a need to explore the unexplored.
I believe that, like Europeans, the Chinese too have curiosity, but unlike the Europeans, the Chinese are held back by filial piety.
Attributing a very complicated thing to one simple reason is almost certainly wrong.
In old days, many of the great thinkers, artists and scientists were born in wealthy families (according to standards of that time).
It is true that they could do things just for curiosity or fun.
In ancient China, it was usually a shame to do "useless" things. Intellectuals must prepare for the the national exam, so they could have a chance to become government officials. There was no platform for independent researchers to contribute in or to survive on.
There were still some researchers in ancient China. For example, Zu Chongzhi fingured Pi=3.1415926~3.1415927, the best of that time. Westerners may not know these things, but we teach them in history class.
When you study Chinese history and Western history, you will know that China did not stagnate for 2000 years. In fact, China was better off than the West during the Dark Ages (between the fall of the Roman Empire up to the Renaissance) by most measures. That is a period of more than 1000 years. Have you ever read what Marco Polo observed in China?
Besides, what proof is there that filial piety causes a lack of innovation? If you go through what happened during the Cultural Revolution, that was a low point in filial piety in China. If things were this simple, then innovation would have blossomed during that era, but reality is that period was such a disaster.
Paper was a necessity. Gunpowder was an accident because they wanted immortality.
All the modern electrics that came out of Japan and Korea are by products of what they learned from Europeans. And the things you listed for them are merely every day trinkets.
Here is what innovation for the sake of innovation consists of:
Going to the moon
Going to Mars
Discovering the Theory of relativity
Circumnavigating the world for the sake of exploration
Chinese people would never think of such things as going to the moon because they need to stay home and look after their parents.
Guess you've forgotten about Genghis Khan. He didn't exactly sit home and look after his folks.
But innovation isn't "going" somewhere, it's creating something. Like the rocket fuel to go to the moon or mars. Or the ship that explored the world.
I would like to know what is the attitude towards this topic in China today.
I know that everyone in China has been confronted with this question: why was everything in the modern world created by Europeans. Why had China remained unchanged for 2000 years?
I think the reason is quite obvious. Every male was created for only one purpose, to serve his parents till death. The parents are like two giant anchors chained to both legs of every male whoever lived in china.
Do modern Chinese people recognize this? Are they still living with their parents?
no. its because there was no incentive too. Chinese culture peaked at the Tang dynasty. East Asian culture is about obedience and loss of face. Never yes, never no. Plus, you need to study all the classics to move up. It stifles creativity. The japanese were not that creative. They copied, just like red chinese do today. Remember when japan was owning the electronics industry? They had a stranghold on the mobile market. Playstation used to ride supreme. No more. Steve Jobs raped them with the Iphone. Samsung took away the TV market. Red China is still associated with lack of quality.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 12-04-2014 at 07:01 AM..
Reason: Copyrighted material
In terms of political system, China has had a unique system since the 1980s, after the copy from the Soviet Union failed.
China model is not really a simple copy from anywhere.
The Japanese did not build the bullet trains because they succumbed to the need for novelty, the need to know the unknown, the need to explore the unexplored.
I did not say that innovation has to be original. In fact, paper is as original as you can get. I merely stressed the motivation behind the innovation.
Most of the ancient Chinese inventions were motivated by necessity. Virtually all of the modern Japanese and Koreans electronics are motivated by profit.
Going to moon was purely a need to explore the unexplored.
I believe that, like Europeans, the Chinese too have curiosity, but unlike the Europeans, the Chinese are held back by filial piety.
What invention is not created out of necessity ever? The mother of all innovation is necessity as the saying goes?
The ancient chinese thinkers have thought up a lot of postulates that have been transferred to the west, which enabled the rennaissance, and the industrial revolution could not have happened without the that.
I'm more interested in the mentality of the parents.
This is the mindset of a western parent towards their son:
This is my son. He will one day be independent. I need to prepare him for that day. I need to teach him to be self-reliant, to be creative, to be a leader, to know how to deal with women, etc.
What is the mindset of a modern Chinese parent with a son? For the past 2000 years, it has been:
This is my son. When he grows up he will need to take care of me and support the family. I need to prepare him for a life of servitude. I need to teach him to defer to his elders, to be dependent on the family, to follow, to conform, not to have any ideas of escaping, and accept whatever decision we make for him, accept whatever wife we choose for him....etc
Does this sound like an innovation seeking civilization? No. This is a fear driven, backwards society.
Why the irrational complex? You have some very strange ideas in your head.
At any rate, what you said is not true at all. In Chinese tradition, the sons, especially the eldest, is considered the head of the family. The mindset of the Chinese parent has always been
to prepare the sons to shoulder the responsibility of leading the family.
You are an example of why the term "armchair archaeologist" exists.
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Don't you think that by not paying for their child's college will only teach the kid to be self-reliant, to manage his own money, etc...?
The Asian parent that is paying for his child's college is not allowing the kid to learn to take care of himself.
Son A: Parents did very little for him in life.
Son B: Parents did everything for him in life.
Which son will be more prepared for life when he turns 18? Isn't it obvious?
I hate to break it to you, but paying for a child's education is not necessary an Asian thing.
You might want to visit the affluent white neighborhoods in America. Most of them pay for their children's education. Not only that, they also pay for their cars, dance lessons, private tutors, prep classes, etc, etc. And I have seen them buy gifts for the teachers, buddy up with the principals, all to try to get an advantage for their kids. They also support them after college when the children bump around and try to make it as "artists" or start companies that failed.
If you want an example, just google the name George W. Bush.
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