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I don't want to bore other fellow posters with Basic Law. But since you mentioned it, let me remind you what Article 22 of Basic Law stipulates:
No department of the Central People's Government and no province, autonomous region, or municipality directly under the Central Government may interfere in the affairs which the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region administers on its own in accordance with this Law.
How many times has the China Liaison Office in Hong Kong, which sole purpose is to co-ordinate activities among China-based enterprises in Hong Kong, interfered in the domestic affairs of Hong Kong?
Numerous occasions. The most outrageous is interference in local election. Even those candidates backed by China admitted it.
Sino-British Joint Communique is indeed toothless. But Hong Kong Democracy and Human Rights Act just passed by Congress is full of sharp biting teeth. For instance, there is no way other China-based enterprises can again act like Huawei in importing US technology to Hong Kong and then clandestinely re-export them to Iran from Hong Kong.
Why does China @#$%^ this Act? Because it really hurts.
I appreciate this response and don't think that others are bored with this discussion! Indeed, this discussion represents an important part of understanding the ongoing unrest in Hong Kong today.
Two points in response to your post, though:
1) The National People's Congress is not a "department" of the Central People's Government (today known as the State Council) and is not a "province," autonomous region, or municipality directly under the Central Government." Rather, the Central People's Government (or State Council) is subordinate to the National People's Congress, which itself is only one of the organs of political power in the PRC; the other two being the Central Military Commission and the Communist Party. Thus, the role of the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress is not limited by Article 22 of the Hong Kong Basic Law.
2) In any event, the Hong Kong Basic Law is a law of the People's Republic of China, passed by the National People's Congress. The Basic Law does not operate separately and independently of the PRC and the PRC has the authority to both interpret the Basic Law under the terms of the BL and to completely ignore and do away with the basic law as the ultimate sovereign authority in the country.
Simply put, Hong Kong exists as a special administrative region of the People's Republic of China solely with the blessing and consent of the People's Republic of China.
Did you really read what I wrote? I was writing about how China Liaison Office in Hong Kong, a branch under the Central government, openly violated Article 22 of Basic Law in interfering in the internal affairs of Hong Kong.
No wonder the world has so much trouble in communicating with China.
Did you really read what I wrote? I was writing about how China Liaison Office in Hong Kong, a branch under the Central government, openly violated Article 22 of Basic Law in interfering in the internal affairs of Hong Kong.
No wonder the world has so much trouble in communicating with China.
I read over that. Sorry. In any case, I repeat that the Hong Kong Basic Law is a law of the People's Republic of China. It does not exist separate and independent of the PRC government. The question of violations of basic law thus would come down to one of recourse. If the basic law or other PRC law authorized Hong Kong or affected citizens of Hong Kong (as an example, though I'm not sure that it does allow for such action) to sue the PRC in PRC courts over violations of the Basic Law, the National People's Congress would be free to merely change the law. The PRC holds the legal and sovereign trump card here. Not Hong Kong. The sooner these protesters accept this, the sooner things can return to some sense of normalcy.
I'm not proficient with legalese; I want to chime in just from a common citizen's perspective (not a citizen of HK but I feel like one just because of the time I spend there).
1. "Won't change for 50 years" to me means after 50 years it would completely change into China's system at that time. In short, a full integration then.
2. Because of #1, to me it is better that gradual assimilation takes place, rather than keeping everything pre-1997 and abruptly cutover to the Chinese system in 2047. That would be painful and would turn society upside down.
3. Because of #2, I think the influence of the Central Govt, or "meddling" in the eyes of many Beijing critics, is necessary. The teaching and speaking of Mandarin, the teaching of patriotism, while I hate it, I accept it as part of the transition to post-2047.
4. Because of #3, I think the current protest with its unspoken goal of HK independence, is without legitimacy, even though I personally would love to see Hong Kong becoming independent and keeping the way it is forever. I would rather the protesters clearly state their goals, and more importantly be willing to make the necessary sacrifice to make it happen (learn from the Palentinians), rather than trying to spin the extradition law into something it is not. It really has been painful to watch this debate and movement.
Be frank. Nobody believes the 50 year stuff. It didn't even take 10 years for Beijing to tear up the self-autonomy agreement that it promised to Tibet.
As long as Beijing needs Hong Kong, then the arrangement is not only 50 years, but even longer. But if Beijing does not need Hong Kong, it will just right away order the PLA to round up the hundreds of thousands of dissidents and send them to the remote corner of Xinjiang.
The problem is Beijing needs Hong Kong more than ever. The demonstrators know it. So that is why they have the guts to trample on the national and party flags, burn them and drown them.
Beijing can do nothing about it. The one who drowned the flag was only sentenced to 200 hours social service while the Mainlander who drew graffiti on the wall of U.S. Consulate was sentenced to 4-month prison.
As long as Beijing needs Hong Kong, then the arrangement is not only 50 years, but even longer. But if Beijing does not need Hong Kong, it will just right away order the PLA to round up the hundreds of thousands of dissidents and send them to the remote corner of Xinjiang.
The problem is Beijing needs Hong Kong more than ever. The demonstrators know it. So that is why they have the guts to trample on the national and party flags, burn them and drown them.
Beijing can do nothing about it. The one who drowned the flag was only sentenced to 200 hours social service while the Mainlander who drew graffiti on the wall of U.S. Consulate was sentenced to 4-month prison.
CCP is pissed off. So what?
You got it the wrong way. The reason China does not send in the PLA is because Hong Kong is not worth the international backlash.
And yes, if they are not willing to send in the PLA, then they cannot stop the protest like they would do on the mainland. But I do not think the protestors goal is to protest until the Hong Kong economy falls off a cliff and most of the protestors are in jail. The point is to achieve the demands, and that is also not going to happen, because Hong Kong is not worth it.
Blocking airport, doors of trains, roads and tunnels is deriving the freedom of movement of travellers and HK people. Most people of HK and travellers are concerned about the ease of travelling and income, not the protestors' unrealistic demands. Most people are against the violence by protestors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic
Geez, blocking the airport after 10 weeks of nothing from the government. What a bunch of monsters!
You got it the wrong way. The reason China does not send in the PLA is because Hong Kong is not worth the international backlash.
But I do not think the protestors goal is to protest until the Hong Kong economy falls off a cliff and most of the protestors are in jail.
Most protesters will not be in jail.
Why? The reason is really simple.
There are only about 8,000 prison spaces in the entire Hong Kong. Since June 5,000+ demonstrators have been arrested. Most are released on bail. The judicial system is not catered to handle this kind of large scale political unrest. In fact until recently the court was still dealing with those indicted during the Occupy Central Movement that happened in 2014.
So when will all these 5,000+ (assuming the demonstration ends today and no more arrest) go through the due process?
Likely not before 2047. Even if they are sentenced to jail, they have to take turn. In the current political atmosphere, I don't see the legislature can approve funding for prison construction.
During the recent arrest at the Polytechnic University which was under police besiege, a student from Kazakhstan and a student from Japan were also arrested.
The most weird is that a female student from Mainland China was helped by a political heavyweight and exempted from arrest and left campus.
Her last name is Zhu. Widely believed to be related to ex-Prime Minister Zhu Rongji.
Most people are against the violence, but most people are not against the protesters' demands (not really unrealistic since one of the five has already been met by the government).
In fact, overwhelmingly in every poll taken shows that most respondents favor one of the other four demands should be met -- an independent commission to investigate the entire turmoil.
Moreover, many organizations, like HK Chamber of Commerce, has advised the government to set up an independent commission. Others like UN and EU also said that HK government should do so.
The only hurdle is the police.
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