What's with Palestine

[Pruzhany]

Originally Posted by censusdata

Germany did terrible things to the Jewish people. So the winning WW2 White nations decided to push Arabs out of Palestine to make a space for Jews to have their own state. I feel for Jews who have been persecuted so many times when living as a minority. I also feel for Palestinians whose lives were disrupted and now live in permanent house arrest.

It would be like punishing the Spanish and English for displacing Native Americans by taking 90% of Poland as Native American land.

You need to research the Ottoman Empire as there were nearly 200,000 Jews who were land owners in the Sanjaks of the OE before the start of WW1. The ending of WW2 did not swing the doors wide open for Jews to enter the region as the British were actually blocking them from doing so. The British had no intent in actually following through with Balfour. Why do you think they chopped off the land to the east of the Jordan River and gave it to a family that was not indigenous to that part of the Middle East? Why do you think they chopped off the Golan Heights from the Mandate, transferred it to France who gifted it to Syria? Who do you think were housed in Displaced Persons Camps in Europe and the large barbed wired camps in the Mandate? Why were the British arming the Arabs with tanks and other armaments while blocking the Jews from getting any? Why do you think there was a Jewish insurgency against the British by Jews after WW2 had ended?

[Urban Peasant]

Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy

I was wondering the other day. Islamic invaders used to forcibly convert or tax the nonbelievers. Since Muslim palestinians already don't eat pork, are circumcised, wear skull caps, why not just convert to Judaism? Then wouldn't they get the right to return in 2 generations under israeli law since they are jewish? That loves the whole religion problem. For the christian ones, its ironic that born again john 3:16 bible thumpers support the jewish israelis instead of fellow xtian palestinians.

In Islam it is considered apostasy to disavow Muhammad and renounce the faith. Muslims throughout the world do so at their peril.

[YorktownGal]

Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy

I was wondering the other day. Islamic invaders used to forcibly convert or tax the nonbelievers. Since Muslim palestinians already don't eat pork, are circumcised, wear skull caps, why not just convert to Judaism? Then wouldn't they get the right to return in 2 generations under israeli law since they are jewish? That loves the whole religion problem.

Jewish identity and religion is also commonly defined through ethnicity. A mother's ethnicity/religion determine a child's mother's ethnicity/religion. People's whole life depends on their religion.

As of 2010, anyone who immigrated to Israel after 1990 and wishes to marry or divorce via the Jewish tradition within the state limits must go through a "Judaism test" at an Orthodox Rabbinical court. In this test, a person would need to prove their claim to be Jewish to an investigator beyond a reasonable doubt. They would need to present original documentation of their matriline up to their great-grandmother (4 generations), or in the case of Ethiopian Jews, 7 generations back. In addition, they should provide government documents with nationality/religion shown as Jewish (e.g., birth/death certificates, marriage documents, etc.).

In the case of people whose original documents have been lost or never existed, it may take a lot of work to prove their being Jewish. The court rulings are not final, and any clerk has the power to question them even 20 years later, changing one's citizenship status to "on hold", and putting them in jeopardy of deportation.

So why is the Jewish marriage or divorce tradition important in Israel?

Israel’s religious authorities — the only entities authorized to perform weddings in Israel.

The State of Israel and Christian Churches have a special arrangement for the recognition of Christian marriage. Separate and unequal.

So true:

For the christian ones, its ironic that born again john 3:16 bible thumpers support the jewish israelis instead of fellow xtian palestinians.

In recent years, settlers have begun so-called "price tag" attacks against Palestinians in response to Israeli government actions that displease them, such as the dismantling of settlement "outposts" (nascent settlements built without official approval from Israeli authorities). Often, such attacks take the form of vandalism and desecration of Muslim and Christian holy sites, including a string of arson attacks against mosques in the West Bank and Israel.
In December 2012, Jewish extremists vandalized the Greek Orthodox Monastery of the Cross in Jerusalem for the second time, painting "Death to Christianity," "Jesus, son of a *****," and "price tag" on its walls and slashing tires on cars in its parking lot.
In October 2012, the St. George Romanian Orthodox Church in Jerusalem was vandalized, its door damaged and garbage dumped in its entrance. It was at least the third act of vandalism against a Christian holy site in the previous five weeks. A week before the Romanian Church was attacked, vandals spray-painted "Jesus is a bastard" and "price tag" on the Franciscan convent on Mount Zion.
In September 2012, attackers set fire to the door of the Latrun Monastery in Jerusalem. Believed to be a "price tag" attack, the arson took place a week after the Israeli government evacuated settlers from the Migron settlement "outpost" in the West Bank.
In February 2012, Israel's Haaretz newspaper reported that over the previous two months, vandals had attacked two churches and a Christian cemetery on Mount Zion. In the attacks on the churches, the perpetrators spray-painted "Jesus is dead," "Death to Christianity," and "Mary was a prostitute" on the walls. One of the churches, the Narkis Street Baptist Congregation in Jerusalem, was previously the target of arson attacks in 2007 and 1982.
In November 2011, Haaretz reported that ultra-Orthodox Jews were cursing and spitting at Christian clergy in the streets of the Old City of occupied East Jerusalem "as a matter of routine." The chief secretary of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate stated: "It happens a lot. You walk down the street and suddenly they spit at you for no reason." A student at the city's Armenian Seminary complained that he was subjected to insults and spitting from ultra-Orthodox men on a daily basis, stating: "When I see an ultra-Orthodox man coming toward me in the street, I always ask myself if he will spit at me." According to a separate Haaretz article published in February 2012, spitting incidents were so prevalent that some priests had stopped visiting certain parts of the Old City.
In June 2012, Dan Halutz, former chief of staff of the Israeli army, which as an occupying military force is ultimately responsible for security in the occupied territories, including East Jerusalem, said that the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu wasn't really interested in stopping the perpetrators of "price tag" attacks, stating: "If we wanted, we could catch them and when we want to, we will."
In March 2012, the Guardian newspaper reported that senior European Union officials had drafted a confidential report concluding that Jewish settlers are engaged in a systematic and growing campaign of violence against Palestinians and that "settler violence enjoys the tacit support of the state of Israel."

https://imeu.org/article/palestinian...-the-holy-land

[censusdata]

Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident

You don't seem to understand the context of the region, if that's the analogy you're using. Jews have been wanting to return to their ancestral homeland ever since they got kicked out. That is the historic land of Israel. The modern Zionist movement was spearheaded by a man named Theodor Herzl in the late 19th century. All of that long predates the events that transpired in Nazi Germany during the 30's and 40's. You could argue that it was the final catalyst, but the 1917 Balfour Declaration already announced put those plans into motion beforehand.

The Jews were evicted 2,000 years ago. That's a really long time.

[Urban Peasant]

Part of the problem with the Arab-Israeli conflict is that the Palestinian leaders explicitly stated that Islam will be the state religion which means that Jews will never be welcome to Palestine. There will never be a Jewish Palestinian even though there is such a person as a Muslim Israeli or Christian Israeli right now.

[Milky Way Resident]

Originally Posted by Urban Peasant

In Islam it is considered apostasy to disavow Muhammad and renounce the faith. Muslims throughout the world do so at their peril.

That’s because Islam is viewed as the third and final revelation of God. What came before, Judaism and Christianity in this case, were merely stepping stones leading to Islam. Accordingly, they are perceived as dated religions. That’s why it’s so easy to convert to Islam, but not to officially renounce the faith.

Originally Posted by Urban Peasant

Part of the problem with the Arab-Israeli conflict is that the Palestinian leaders explicitly stated that Islam will be the state religion which means that Jews will never be welcome to Palestine. There will never be a Jewish Palestinian even though there is such a person as a Muslim Israeli or Christian Israeli right now.

If you ask me, Muslims already have plenty of land around the world, not to mention access to their two holiest cities (Mecca and Medina). Jerusalem is the holiest place in Judaism,while merely the third in Islam, and should accordingly belong to Israel, who in turn has a duty to preserve the holy sites and guarantee the rights of Christians and Muslims in the region.

[YorktownGal]

Originally Posted by Urban Peasant

Part of the problem with the Arab-Israeli conflict is that the Palestinian leaders explicitly stated that Islam will be the state religion which means that Jews will never be welcome to Palestine. There will never be a Jewish Palestinian even though there is such a person as a Muslim Israeli or Christian Israeli right now.

Before 1948, there were Jewish Palestinians citizens. There has always been native Jews living in Palestinian for the last 2,000 years. You should read Blood Brothers by Elias Chacour

JERUSALEM — Israel passed a controversial new “nation-state law” last week that’s sparking both celebration and fierce debate over the very nature of Israel itself.

The law does three big things:

It states that “the right to exercise national self-determination” in Israel is “unique to the Jewish people.”

It establishes Hebrew as Israel’s official language, and downgrades Arabic — a language widely spoken by Arab Israelis — to a “special status.”

It establishes “Jewish settlement as a national value” and mandates that the state “will labor to encourage and promote its establishment and development.”

Each of these statements would be contentious on its own, but taken together, they’re a clear, unequivocal statement of how the Jewish state’s current leaders see both the country and the diverse people who call it home.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s far-right government backed the legislation and was overjoyed at the law’s passing. Netanyahu lauded the law as “a defining moment in the history of the state” — a phrase that was splashed across the front pages of Israel Hayom, the country’s most-read newspaper, which is often described as Netanyahu’s Fox News for its favorable coverage of his government.

But for Israeli Arabs, who make up one-fifth of Israel’s 9 million citizens, the new law was a slap in the face. When the law passed, Arab parliamentary members ripped up copies of the bill and shouted, “Apartheid,” on the floor of the Knesset (Israel’s parliament).

Ayman Odeh, the leader of a coalition of primarily Arab parties currently in the opposition, said in a statement that Israel had “passed a law of Jewish supremacy and told us that we will always be second-class citizens.”

Palestinians, liberal American Jews, and many Israelis on the left also denounced the law as racist and undemocratic. Yohanan Plesner, the head of the nonpartisan Jerusalem-based Israel Democracy Institute, called the new law “jingoistic and divisive” and an “unnecessary embarrassment to Israel.”

But at the core of the new law is a deep, existential debate that Israelis have grappled with almost since the country’s founding: Can Israel be both a “Jewish state” that protects and celebrates Jewish identity, and a liberal democracy that protects the rights of all minorities, including non-Jews?

Today, Arab Israelis have a different legal status from the 350,000 Palestinians who live under Israeli occupation in East Jerusalem, the 2.5 million who live in the Palestinian Authority-administered West Bank, and the 1.9 million who live in the blockaded Gaza Strip under the rule of Hamas, which the US and several other Western countries have designated a terrorist organization.

Those populations of Palestinians are technically stateless. This means that, for instance, Palestinians in East Jerusalem can’t vote in Israeli national elections or obtain Israeli passports, among other restrictions. For Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, it means that major parts of their lives are controlled by Israel — a country they have no direct voice in.

Arab Israelis, on the other hand, are citizens of Israel and therefore, at least in theory, have access to the same passports, elections, education, health care, infrastructure, and security as Jewish Israelis.

But while they certainly enjoy more rights than Palestinians in East Jerusalem, who in turn have it better than Palestinians in the West Bank, who have it far better than Palestinians in Gaza, Arab Israelis say that since the state’s founding, in practice they have not been afforded the same rights as Jewish Israelis. This is one reason why many Arab Israelis refer to themselves as Palestinians with Israeli citizenship.

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/...yahu-democracy