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^ In the long run India got rid of the UK decades ago and just recently their economy started performing at great temps.
Try explaining to people like Gandi, Patrice Lumumba, Yukio Mishima, Jose Rizal or others how "great" western colonization is.
India, Congo, and the Philippines are not good examples of democracies or free economies. They are flawed democracies where power and wealth is still held by a small number of individuals, politics are not transparent, and each one can easily gravitate to autocracy or authoritarianism at different levels.
Do you? You certainly have a funny way of showing it.
Just because I do not hate Chinese people like you do and say things like "I would not care if millions if chinese get massacred" and "Chinese deserve their horrible government" does not mean I am pro-CCP.
I am a Norwegian after all. Why would you expect me to become anti-democracy or anti free speech by living a few years in China?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic
wow we voted for the wrong party? Excuse me? Who the **** are you to tell us how to vote?
India, Congo, and the Philippines are not good examples of democracies or free economies. They are flawed democracies where power and wealth is still held by a small number of individuals, politics are not transparent, and each one can easily gravitate to autocracy or authoritarianism at different levels.
In America several billionaires own most of the wealth, it's absurd to criticize other countries on this matter.
I don't know much about Philipines or Congo but based on the little I know about India they're free and more so than America, even their PM is vegetarian...kinda cool. I'll be surprised if you know more than me anyway about such different countries none of which is a major culture exporter (excluding India's bollywood anyway...).
In America several billionaires own most of the wealth, it's absurd to criticize other countries on this matter.
I don't know much about Philipines or Congo but based on the little I know about India they're free and more so than America, even their PM is vegetarian...kinda cool. I'll be surprised if you know more than me anyway about such different countries none of which is a major culture exporter (excluding India's bollywood anyway...).
I know full well the weaknesses and hypocrisies of the country I live in but I did not bring America into the conversation so please leave it out . Please do not try to change the subject. You were the one who brought up Lumumba and Rizal so I had to remind you that in spite of their courageous efforts to resist Western colonization, some of their own people took advantage of the chaos to enrich and empower themselves at the expense of others. You cannot entirely blame colonials for this because it was an action largely perpetrated by indigenous leaders. As for India, I have had classmates in university who grew up in India and told me people have been unlawfully detained, harassed, and silenced for speaking out against powerful individuals. Especially vulnerable are women who face the prospect of getting raped and beaten for speaking out even against their own husbands or kin. This is rooted in local indigenous culture, don't blame the British or Portuguese for it. I am not an apologist for colonialism as I know the evil detriments of it (sheesh my own family lived under the yoke of colonialism) but extreme anti-colonialist viewpoints like yours are equally as wrong too.
I wouldn't agree with PRCizing Hong Kong, but arresting/expelling agents of foreign powers is fair game and reasonable imo. Arresting political activists who advocate secession is a gray area. Spain arrested a bunch of Catalan secessionists and the world didn't really bat an eye. Attempting to control the media, speech, or courts would be absolutely out of line with the One Nation Two Policies policy. I can understand young Hong Kongers frustration about potential PRCization, and I'm hoping the CCP applies a deft touch when it comes to national security issues and this isn't some heavy handed approach to smack down HK because it represents liberty.
In 1995, the Fortune magazine published an article called "The Death of Hong Kong". Finally the doomsday comes.
In fact, if we look back at history, "One Country Two Systems" is not first implemented in Hong Kong. It was implemented in Tibet. How long did it last? 8 years (1951-1959). So it is really a surprise that it has lasted for 22 years in Hong Kong.
As usual, Beijing blamed foreign influence in the failure of their designated system. At that time, it blamed the CIA. Now this time they also blame CIA without any evidence.
IMO whatever CCP promised is not worth a dime.
But this time they are going on the path of self-destruction. Hong Kong is the most valuable city to them especially during crisis. For example, all those Chinese stocks listed on NYSE and NASDAQ are now going to be delisted. Where can they list? Not in Shanghai or Shenzhen bourse but in Hong Kong where they can raise hard currency.
Now they are destroying the role of Hong Kong as a global financial center. For example, on the day that they announced they would impose such draconian law in Hong Kong, the stock market dived by 5.5%. But not even one financial analyst, foreign or local, dared blame the drop on the draconian law in HK media.
Hong Kong will not die overnight. But it will wither. What CCP conceives is that they keep the institution while kicking out the locals and replaced by their own people. Wish them good luck. But if their own people can do it, they would just simply develop Shanghai to be a global financial center. Why bother with Hong Kong?
I wouldn't agree with PRCizing Hong Kong, but arresting/expelling agents of foreign powers is fair game and reasonable imo. Arresting political activists who advocate secession is a gray area. Spain arrested a bunch of Catalan secessionists and the world didn't really bat an eye. Attempting to control the media, speech, or courts would be absolutely out of line with the One Nation Two Policies policy. I can understand young Hong Kongers frustration about potential PRCization, and I'm hoping the CCP applies a deft touch when it comes to national security issues and this isn't some heavy handed approach to smack down HK because it represents liberty.
Even if Catalan seceded, it would still be in the EU which would make seceding pointless. Plus, if its a langauge issue they could all just compromise and go back to speak latin. Also, spain is a democracy. Hong Kong is about to be full taken over by a facist orwellian government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee
In 1995, the Fortune magazine published an article called "The Death of Hong Kong". Finally the doomsday comes.
In fact, if we look back at history, "One Country Two Systems" is not first implemented in Hong Kong. It was implemented in Tibet. How long did it last? 8 years (1951-1959). So it is really a surprise that it has lasted for 22 years in Hong Kong.
As usual, Beijing blamed foreign influence in the failure of their designated system. At that time, it blamed the CIA. Now this time they also blame CIA without any evidence.
IMO whatever CCP promised is not worth a dime.
But this time they are going on the path of self-destruction. Hong Kong is the most valuable city to them especially during crisis. For example, all those Chinese stocks listed on NYSE and NASDAQ are now going to be delisted. Where can they list? Not in Shanghai or Shenzhen bourse but in Hong Kong where they can raise hard currency.
Now they are destroying the role of Hong Kong as a global financial center. For example, on the day that they announced they would impose such draconian law in Hong Kong, the stock market dived by 5.5%. But not even one financial analyst, foreign or local, dared blame the drop on the draconian law in HK media.
Hong Kong will not die overnight. But it will wither. What CCP conceives is that they keep the institution while kicking out the locals and replaced by their own people. Wish them good luck. But if their own people can do it, they would just simply develop Shanghai to be a global financial center. Why bother with Hong Kong?
agreed but I don't wish the CCP any luck. I hope they get their heads chopped off in the yellow turban rebellion. This government is causing too many problems. They even make trump look good.
A point I never see discussed by the pro-Hong Kong crowd.
Simple: the Chinese had de-facto control of Macau starting in 1967. Portuguese sovereignty only existed on paper from 1974 (the Carnation Revolution) until the formal handover in 1999. Hong Kong on the other hand had another 30 years of Western style education, the people's minds weren't polluted. That's why there's so much opposition to Beijing's demands for "patriotism" classes and absurd spectacles of public loyalty to the communist regime.
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. Please do not try to change the subject. You were the one who brought up Lumumba and Rizal so I had to remind you that in spite of their courageous efforts to resist Western colonization, some of their own people took advantage of the chaos to enrich and empower themselves at the expense of others. You cannot entirely blame colonials for this because it was an action largely perpetrated by indigenous leaders. As for India, I have had classmates in university who grew up in India and told me people have been unlawfully detained, harassed, and silenced for speaking out against powerful individuals. Especially vulnerable are women who face the prospect of getting raped and beaten for speaking out even against their own husbands or kin. This is rooted in local indigenous culture, don't blame the British or Portuguese for it. I am not an apologist for colonialism as I know the evil detriments of it (sheesh my own family lived under the yoke of colonialism) but extreme anti-colonialist viewpoints like yours are equally as wrong too.
