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we're done with "what if" question really, especially when you have a hard time understanding me. It's meaningless to give "what if" questions.
Are you refusing to answer?
In that case, my point still stand, China did not need nuclear weapons to defend itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maomao
so you just proved my point, by the time the westerners conquers china, they already colonized america/africa/australia/india. China did the best compare to those. Who tell you that china was united at that time? there are rebelions every where.
Just to give you a little history about the opium war, the british fleet chose not to engage with the defense in canton and instead sail straight north to attack tianjin and threatens to attack the capital. That's what forced the qing to sign the treaties. China is too big to defend the entire coast line.
You are talking nonsense again. As I said, China had a massive population and distance advantage that no other place had. Losing to the Europeans later than a country which has 1/100 of China's population is not impressive. China shouldn't have lost at all, as it had a bigger population and was defending territory against an enemy that had to travel thousands of miles by ship.
And China was not too big to defend. The right statement was that Qing dynasty was too weak to defend its coast line.
Why are you so obsessed with covering up the mistakes of the Qing dynasty anyway?
Portions of the West long ago rejected the idea of autocracy and even during feudalism, the type of governments that existed in Europe didn't really have absolute control over people. Kings typically only exerted control through their vassals, who exerted control over their vassals, and so on...but even at the "highest" levels, control was not absolute. For various reasons, people wanted and succeeded at getting more decentralized forms of government and have refined it over the centuries. Some areas of Europe, like Germany, did go through the Enlightenment period but then kind of vacillated a few times, apparently unsure whether they wanted to accept or reject it. England started on a serious path towards democracy with the Magna Carta in the 1200s, so that's 800 years of experimentation.
Most of Asia and the Middle East have not benefited from the same lengthy periods of philosophical work and experimentation with different types of government as well as a development of civil society that goes beyond government and religion. They haven't really had a lot of time to try these kinds of different ideas out on their own cultures over an extended period of time.
Don't expect massive progress overnight any faster than it happened in the West. Give them 400+ years or so and then check back on the results.
You are basically saying that sooner or later everyone becomes like the West, if you wait long enough.
I think that is not the case at all for various reasons:
- the Western system is itself failing already. It breeds incompetent leadership because it is a popularity contest decided by people most of whom are not qualified to make important decisions. Not to mention that it is a toxic system because it split society into winners and losers, in other words the majority is forcing its views on the minority that lost the elections. After all, that is why every party tries to get an absolute majority of votes so that it doesn't have to deal with the opposition. That whole concept is flawed in my view.
- different cultures bring about different systems. The western system is not some sort of natural law, far from it. It is just one step, even if western countries have been stagnating for a long time now due to their wrong belief that their system is great the way it is. They should start to evolve again.
And other countries and cultures take different paths to different destinations. And that's perfectly fine. I reject that racist, imperialist attitude that everyone has to adopt the western **** and if they don't they are an enemy.
Just to recap: Giving regular people the right to choose which political party and leaders run the government they pay taxes to is “racist, imperialistic garbageâ€
Got it.
Hey Neuling, what do you call mowing down Tibetan Buddhist monasteries and other monuments, the planned resettlement of millions of Han Chinese into regions with high ethnic minority populations or forced sterilization of Uyghur women?
Just to recap: Giving regular people the right to choose which political party and leaders run the government they pay taxes to is “racist, imperialistic garbageâ€
Got it.
Hey Neuling, what do you call mowing down Tibetan Buddhist monasteries and other monuments, the planned resettlement of millions of Han Chinese into regions with high ethnic minority populations or forced sterilization of Uyghur women?
It is not about giving people that right, the West is trying to force its system on others. That is racist, imperialist behavior, yes.
In kingdoms people can't elect their leaders, either. But I never see anyone try to force our system on Saudi-Arabia for instance.
And as I said, I don't consider it a right, anyway. Rights are given by humans, they are not some sort of natural right like in the jungle.
Your question there makes no sense since nothing of that is happening...
It is not about giving people that right, the West is trying to force its system on others. That is racist, imperialist behavior, yes.
Sounds similar to how China tries to dictate how the world treats Taiwan.
Except, I don't see much pushing of democracy from the west at all. No one seems to care that Vietnam is not a democracy.
EU is mostly concerned about unfair trade practices and the USA is willing to support anyone if it benefits the USA. And both are very concerned about nations who don't respect the line of control and uses some historical claim to justify war.
Sounds similar to how China tries to dictate how the world treats Taiwan.
Except, I don't see much pushing of democracy from the west at all. No one seems to care that Vietnam is not a democracy.
EU is mostly concerned about unfair trade practices and the USA is willing to support anyone if it benefits the USA. And both are very concerned about nations who don't respect the line of control and uses some historical claim to justify war.
No country accepts another country treating a part of it as if it were a separate country.
Spain doesn't allow that, either.
Exactly, the West is full of double standards, depending on whether country x is perceived as useful or not. That's why the West is supporting the West's attempted genocide in Yemen, Syria, Venezuela etc., but makes a fuss about a non-existing genocide in Xinjiang because that is in China.
Your last paragraph is absurdly naive. I doubt even you believe what you wrote there...
No country accepts another country treating a part of it as if it were a separate country.
Spain doesn't allow that, either.
Can PRC dictate policy in Taiwan? Can PRC send military to Taiwan?
Spain can do it to Catalonia, so why can't the PRC?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
Exactly, the West is full of double standards, depending on whether country x is perceived as useful or not. That's why the West is supporting the West's attempted genocide in Yemen, Syria, Venezuela etc., but makes a fuss about a non-existing genocide in Xinjiang because that is in China.
All countries has double standards, but your point that the west is pushing democracy is false.
Also, Assad is supported by Russia and Maduro is supported by both Russia and China.
I remember when Kissinger and Nixon were "opening up" China. There was much glitter about China becoming westernized. I always though Kissinger was either an imbecile or playing for the other team. I don't know if Nixon got suckered into this, thinking he was making history (he was, unfortunately), but he's equally at fault. Commie leopards do not change their spots. Look at how some of the Olympic athletes are being treated. Pitiful.
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