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Old 01-24-2023, 07:10 PM
 
4,698 posts, read 4,076,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orbiter View Post
The last article dated January the 18th on Helongjiang, cleaning up corruptions is still the prioritized policy. Young people in that province relocate to bigger, or even 1st- and 2nd-tier cities since the 80s
as per the chart below.
~ tinyurl.com/5yejhxmm

Interesting. So in a matter of 10 years, the population of Hegang declined by 15.81%.
This 25-year old graphic designer paid RMB 15,000 for her 46 sqM pad.
China could offer a 10-year visa to WFH young foreigners with a bank account of USD 150k to liven up the town. They could even cross the first and ONLY bridge between China and Russia, opened just a few months ago, thanks to SleepyZzz or was it AGAM?
~ i.imgur.com/gZXYMDJ.jpg
Cleaning up corruption just means getting rid of political opponents. What I find more interesting is that they are not trying very hard to increase the fertility rate in Heilongjiang. This shows me that the current leaders don't have the will to implement what is necessary to reverse the decline in fertility and will keep implementing ineffective policies for show. An example of such policies is handouts for getting a third kid. It is not a real incentive as people are not even going to consider getting 3 kids, but it won't cost them anything and make themselves look good to Beijing.

And I don't know why you mention WFH foreigners. They obviously won't have any interest in living in Hegang. Most of them would prefer to live in a developed country, the minority who want to save money in a developing country prefer places like Vietnam and the minority of the minority who prefer China will prefer developed cities or rural areas. Hegang is not an attractive place to live, which is why lots of people leave that city.
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Old 01-24-2023, 07:33 PM
 
2,230 posts, read 1,333,320 times
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In the Europe Forum, there is an American now living in Siberia.
Harder to save money in Vietnam, higher costs and too much distraction.
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Old 01-25-2023, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
3,410 posts, read 4,469,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
Cleaning up corruption just means getting rid of political opponents. What I find more interesting is that they are not trying very hard to increase the fertility rate in Heilongjiang. This shows me that the current leaders don't have the will to implement what is necessary to reverse the decline in fertility and will keep implementing ineffective policies for show. An example of such policies is handouts for getting a third kid. It is not a real incentive as people are not even going to consider getting 3 kids, but it won't cost them anything and make themselves look good to Beijing.

And I don't know why you mention WFH foreigners. They obviously won't have any interest in living in Hegang. Most of them would prefer to live in a developed country, the minority who want to save money in a developing country prefer places like Vietnam and the minority of the minority who prefer China will prefer developed cities or rural areas. Hegang is not an attractive place to live, which is why lots of people leave that city.
What type of handouts? A one time check or multi-year benefits like free childcare? I actually don't know much about stuff like maternity leave and childcare in China, but generous social policies don't really stop population decline elsewhere.
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Old 01-25-2023, 05:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerJAX View Post
What type of handouts? A one time check or multi-year benefits like free childcare? I actually don't know much about stuff like maternity leave and childcare in China, but generous social policies don't really stop population decline elsewhere.
The benefits in China is generally a one time check under specific conditions. The ones that work are multi-year benefits that cover everyone.

Generous social benefits doesn't fix a low fertility rate, but it increases it enough to mitigate the worst effects. It is not a coincidence that the countries with the lowest fertility rates are also countries with few benefits and high costs of raising a child.

What I am noticing is that some government will provide a one-time handout of maybe 20% of the country's yearly salary, and when it doesn't work then people will claim that there is no point in even trying. This is misreading the situation, the real problem is that it is not enough. Over 18 years, that is just 1% of the average wage which is obviously not enough to make people have more kids.
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Old 01-25-2023, 11:11 PM
 
5,743 posts, read 3,607,079 times
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Nothing happens on schedule. The alternative is "later than expected".

Resume China-bashing.
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Old 01-26-2023, 12:18 AM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix
11,039 posts, read 16,871,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Usagi168 View Post
In the past, for rural men needing a bride, some desperate ones have gone to kidnapping or coercion. I don't know if this is still a thing that happens.
I haven't heard too much about it in the last couple years. I'd assume that the COVID-era lockdowns and border security would have made it somewhat more difficult as that was the #1 prime directive.

In the short term, I'm not sure when it'll become an issue again, but in the long term, I'm sure it will be again. Although according to Chinese law it's completely illegal, in practice, local officials seem to take a more hands-off approach to it, to avoid provoking the local population. I've heard of situations where women who have been kidnapped from VN have managed to escape and go to the police, only to be returned to the kidnapper and his family; Chinese police might look at this as a domestic dispute, which they would attempt to mediate and leave the resolution up to the individuals. Chinese laws almost uniformly, in practice, favor the Chinese national in any dispute, so in the instances where the woman does find someone sympathetic to her plight, the man can claim it was a voluntary union and she's extorting him, and she still won't be able to get any children she had with him back and at best can hope to be allowed to leave alone.

With an increasing number of ever more desperate men, things like this, at face value, benefit China by increasing the population and keep content men who are clearly willing to go to great, illegal lengths to get what they want. The CCP will then have to decide what is more important to them: human rights and trafficking, or doing what is necessary to keep some of the millions of lonely men in the country happy.
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Old 01-26-2023, 12:21 AM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix
11,039 posts, read 16,871,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arr430 View Post
Nothing happens on schedule. The alternative is "later than expected".

Resume China-bashing.
You can always offer a well-thought out, well-researched counterpoint. This, obviously, is not one, but if it's clearly just "China bashing," you must have a more positive alternative narrative to offer. Please, share
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Old 01-26-2023, 06:34 AM
 
4,698 posts, read 4,076,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
With an increasing number of ever more desperate men, things like this, at face value, benefit China by increasing the population and keep content men who are clearly willing to go to great, illegal lengths to get what they want. The CCP will then have to decide what is more important to them: human rights and trafficking, or doing what is necessary to keep some of the millions of lonely men in the country happy.
Human trafficing is not really a solution to China's surplus of men and is just symptom of China's weak justice system. It is just a coincidence that it helps the fertility rate. In other cases the weak justice system lead to the opposite result, for instance kids getting kidnapped for organ harvesting.

If the Chinese government wanted to use immigration to fix the surplus of men, then they could give citizenship to people who are residing in China and have been married for 10 years. There are lots of poor women around the world that would be interested, if the Chinese government allowed it. But it doesn't, and no one want to live in China without rights, so they have to kidnap them to force them to be their illegal wife in China.
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Old 01-26-2023, 09:11 AM
 
8,272 posts, read 10,998,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan View Post
Every country on earth has its up and down periods. Some generations get a good deal from the timing and others will get a raw deal.
Someone needs to read up on demographics.
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Old 01-26-2023, 09:12 AM
 
8,272 posts, read 10,998,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
Cleaning up corruption just means getting rid of political opponents. .
Oh. Please don't say that this is so.
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