A little history, if you will...

[shibainu]

Originally Posted by weatherologist

This may have been done. I don't think so. So bear with me. I have been reading a certain thread started by a proclaimed atheist and I was wondering about people and their belief systems. I was wondering if there was a reason for one's belief. Where did it begin? Have you ever sat on the other side of the fence? For the atheists; were you at once a believer? If so, what changed you? Science? Logic? A bad date? For the Christian: have you always had faith in your god or did you come to find Him through something that "happened" in your life. I am not looking for any negative input. No hate mongers, please. Be they atheist or Christian. Just a brief history, if you will. Oh, and another thought...if you also don't mind, are you married and do you have children? I know that may seem like an odd bit of information, but for me, I am always amazed at how my life as a parent can (in a very smallish way) parellel, God, the Father's life, with us. It in someway helps to clinch my understanding.

Thank you for sharing. And thank you in advance for keeping it civil. Like your mama always told you, "If you don't have something nice to say, just don't say nothing at all. And be sure to wear clean underwear when you leave the house!"

You want to know why people change but you only want the good input to answer your question. Some times in life a negative behavior or response is needed to call to the attention that there may need a lifestyle change.Some people need to rock bottom before they learn.

[Willys]

I did go through a phase when I had a different take on those two sets of footprints in the sand. When things were good, Jesus just hung out next to me, like a buddy. When things were bad Jesus resided within me to keep me steady, like a buddy. But I've smoked lots of pot since then.

I was brought up a good southern fundamentalist, so yes, I'm definitely a Christian, by God. but I refuse to acknowledge a church as a house of God, courtesy of that fundamentalist brow beating. I never really liked the idea of the Lincoln Memorial being my envisionment of 'God'... graven images and all that.

I did take a long journey to discover my relationship to my God and have found a very workable scenario with which I live and grow every day.

I have found that if it exists, it is a part of God. Yes, even the air we breathe. The single lowest concept of any element I can get to that would be a part of anything that exists is 'energy'. Humans, as somewhat rational beings, have developed an ability to participate in that force of 'energy', by our thoughts, actions, deeds.... perhaps 'free will' (for another posting about 'free will' in this forum). So, for me, God is energy, the holy spirit that dwells about and within all of us. I cannot accept the idea of an athiest since if there were no God (energy), none of us would exist.

To apply this understanding to religion I take it that which some attempt to grasp as 'religion' is a failed attempt to understand man's participation with 'energy'. Religion being a function similar to an educational institution, or mental.... There exists absolutely no agency outside myself with the right to interfere with my relationship with God, or, how I use my 'energy'. Should I misuse my 'energy' and destroy that of another then there is price to pay, both human and spiritual, some refer to karma. The proper application of that 'religion' then, would be physics.

So, the greatest sin any of us commits is to discuss God since the hearing, seeing, feeling, smelling and/or tasting of God would be the creation of a graven image (see Lincoln Memorial, above).

Not married, no kids. I've been kinda busy... Now must go to adjust karma settings.

[tennesseedreamin]

Thank you Weatherologist, it's nice to know I'm welcomed by you and that you appreciate our field ministry work.

Blue, another thank you for your acceptance

I've been one of Jehovah's Witnesses for a long time now, and although I have come upon some who WERE insulting (tact is an art & sin in all) I have never come across any who were hateful or self-serving. I'm sorry you feel you've found some to be that way. Sometimes our clarifying the difference between true and false doctrine is misunderstood to be hateful or judgemental, but we don't do this to be confrontational. Jesus himself did this and we try to imitate him by doing the same. (Matt 15:3-9 / Mr 7:6-7) We believe as he and his apostles, that there is but one true Christian faith and that that faith unites it's followers. (Eph 4:1-6 / 1Cor 1:10-13)

Although I think it is good to understand the beliefs and ways of worship of others, Jehovah's Witnesses don't think it is wise to "blend" beliefs, this only causes confusion. I knew a Methodist couple who were very active in their church, the neighborhood thought they were very devout people, but one day they took me to dinner and when they expressed their inability to quote Scripture or pray aloud I wondered how could this be? I attended one of their alternative church services and they had a debate about what to believe. I was truely stunned. Weren't they called the "United" Methodists? No one really knew anything, they weren't versed on Scripture and they really just talked about what they personally believed.

Afterward they gave me some books and when I got to looking through them I saw that one was written by a Mormon, one by a Baptist, one a Catholic and one Evangelistic. I began to see why they were so confused and why there was no unity among them, they were taking this belief from this religion and another belief from that one. From my previous and ongoing study of world religions I knew this disharmoney was in all of Christendom's faiths, they were all in confusion. This is what the word Babylon means, confusion. All road do not lead to truth or to God, only to confusion. Jehovah's Witnesses do not go about saying this because they are self-righteous but because they care about others and about God who wants everyone to "worship in spirit and truth."

[Miss Blue]

Tennessee, My post was not to flame or insult you or jw religion. What I was attempting to say was that I have met some pretty unbearable people in any group of individuals within any organization, but it doesn't make me dislike what the organization stands for. Yes,I am a blend of many religious beliefs, jw included, because I have had many years to study and search and pray about religion an where God wanted me to fit in..I can't quote scripture, but I can find it pretty fast. Scripture ,IMO, is for me to build my faith on and to teach me to find goodness in everyone. I don't use scripture to confuse or hurt a christian/believer, nor do I try to change him to my beliefs. An example would be that I don't think it is necessary to take communion service every Sunday to remember the sacrifice of Christ..I remember it every time I pray..But I will defend a person who does believe that he should take communion each Sunday, because tha is his interpretation from the bible . However, there are some things in religions that I do not believe in, because the beliefs come from man and not God..

[cremebrulee]

I am not an atheist...I am now, agnostic...I do pray, but not as much as I used to...I figure God already knows my needs before I even think of them as needs.

As far as finding happiness, peace....it is within me to do that...and no one else's job but mine...

I at one time was very active within the church, ever since I can remember. I used to read the Bible all the time...

I think the Bible is a very good refrence to live life by....but I also think, that anyone can read the Bible and interrupt it to fit their needs, their beliefs.
Let me explain. I write poetry...and it is through writing poetry, I've learned that who you are, inetrrupts what you see when you read my poetry. For instance, if your mind is of a set way, you would think I'm speaking of an intimate relationship with God...but if your mind is of a nature that is sexually driven, you would see it as a poem of sexual content. And that is also how so many different religons have come to be.

Also, there are many people that can use the Bible quoting verses word for word, which simply means they have a very good memory and can retain information.

I have seen in over 30 years of my life, how passive most Christians are, and how political Christianity can be....and how those with the most money, run the church...and how little they want to really help society....I also see a lot of people who have a huge amount of problems claim to be Christians, who are in fact, in dire need of counseling...as I've seen many of them use Christianity to hide behind. As long as they go to church, every week, they believe that they are doing their jobs.

I had a family who I grew up with in our neighborhood...they were devote christians. They were also businessmen....I stood back and watched them take their best friends, if they could, b/c when it came to their money, that is what counted.

I also saw my son's father do the same thing....and now, his son suffers from the same problem....they are both married to very abusive wives...and chose to stick their heads in the sand, but don't feel they are doing anything wrong, in the name of peace. Well, peace at all cost is no peace at all...and to compromise one's identity is very sad. A bully is a bully, and no matter what you do, it will effect the lives of others...so if you enable a bully to act as such, then how are you doing the right thing?

I do not approve of religion, but have great admiration for faith...and there are very few absolotes in this world who have great faith and live their lives by example, to do good and to leave this place better then when we found it. If I were wrong, this county and world wouldn't be in the shape it's in.

We have not yet learned by history that what we are doing isn't working. We have regressed and the same leaders of religion back before Christ, are still leaders of religions today...only concerned with power and money.

If you look back thru history, when did every great nation fall...when they became immoral and corrupt. Same has been happening since the beginning of time....we haven't changed all that much, even though technology has.

Man will be his own demise....I believe man invented religion way back in the beginning b/c he didn't know how to explain himself, how he originated or death. And it give him comfort to think he knows what's going to happen when we die or when a loved one dies.

I really don't know if I do believe the Bible...why...because I've studied how man at one time murdered thousands of women...because they colored outside the lines...and those women were condemed by Priests. I believe anyone who really has studied history and is savvy on historical events concerning religion, land, and how all evolved...more people would question...

it, to me, is sad....that we haven't really evolved much, since man first walked upright...and what I mean by evolved, is, mentally...and Godly.

[weatherologist]

Originally Posted by shibainu

You want to know why people change but you only want the good input to answer your question. Some times in life a negative behavior or response is needed to call to the attention that there may need a lifestyle change.Some people need to rock bottom before they learn.

I apologize for the misunderstanding of my post. I thank you for highlighting that sentence. If there is a negative response to the answer of "why I am atheist?", then I do want to hear that answer if one is willing to post it. What I meant was I did not want others bashing someone elses beliefs or feelings. That was why I tried to give the "bad date" analogy. If there is a negative, I would like to hear it. I am only trying to understand a different belief system and how one arrives at it.

Thank you and again I apologize for any misunderstandings.

[pocono-jane]

Originally Posted by weatherologist

This may have been done. I don't think so. So bear with me. I have been reading a certain thread started by a proclaimed atheist and I was wondering about people and their belief systems. I was wondering if there was a reason for one's belief. Where did it begin? Have you ever sat on the other side of the fence? For the atheists; were you at once a believer? If so, what changed you? Science? Logic? A bad date? For the Christian: have you always had faith in your god or did you come to find Him through something that "happened" in your life. I am not looking for any negative input. No hate mongers, please. Be they atheist or Christian. Just a brief history, if you will. Oh, and another thought...if you also don't mind, are you married and do you have children? I know that may seem like an odd bit of information, but for me, I am always amazed at how my life as a parent can (in a very smallish way) parellel, God, the Father's life, with us. It in someway helps to clinch my understanding.

Thank you for sharing. And thank you in advance for keeping it civil. Like your mama always told you, "If you don't have something nice to say, just don't say nothing at all. And be sure to wear clean underwear when you leave the house!"

Hi Weather....This is a wonderful thread, and I will try as best as I can to answer your OP. I was raised in a family who basically did not make (any) religion a priority in our household. My family comes from various faiths and a European culture. My family never discussed "god" whether "he" existed or not. The word "athiest" or "agnostic" never came up in our house. For my parents, their primary goal was to teach wrong from right. I raised my two sons, also with no religion, but never denying them the opportunity if they so wished, to seek it (any faith) for themselves. I focused on trying to teach them good VALUES rather than forcing them to be any particular religion. Both my sons are now grown. Both are doing well in society, with family & friends, and work a respectable job. Neither one have been or are heavy drinkers; they were never doing drugs; they don't even smoke! Both are in steady one-on-one relationships and have been for quite some time.

Into my late teens, early 20's, I was curious and checked out a few religions. Growing up in the New York area, most everyone I knew was either Catholic or Jewish, and I couldn't get a handle on all the rules and doctrines for either one of those religions. So I tried a more liberal type of protestant (Unitarian) and found that somewhat to my liking. The only reason I didn't continue, was that I was working a full time job, going to college at night, doing volunteer work with orphanages, and trying to have a dating/social life. Bottom line, I was just too tired to get up early on Sunday to make church, with all the other activities I had going!!!! That's the honest truth of why I didn't continue!

I remained fairly neutral until a terrible unecessary tragedy (the sudden loss of my very healthy mother at a fairly young age) happened in my life. I was told it was "god's will" for her to die at that point, and I had a real hard time accepting that. From then on, I became anti-"god" or very leary of the thought of "god" being "powerful and loving", and the rest is history (looking at the world around us in the last few decades....). Thanks for listening.

[Padgett2]

I was one of those brats that always wanted to know "why." I still do. It's just the way I am. That's why I would classify myself as a Christian Agnostic. I support the Christian/Judeo way of life as a worthwhile way to live even though I have no deep feelings one way or the other about what is, or is not. I think Society needs an anchor, and at the present time, those ministers, priests and rabbis, are the leaders in guiding the people. Not all of them are good men and women, but I think it's better than no leaders at all.

I'm not looking for concrete answers, because I know that there is no way that anyone could explain EVERYTHING in a way that would suit me. Telling me that something is God's Plan or it's true because it's in the bible, is a waste of time, because I will still want to know WHY is it God's Plan.

[GCSTroop]

In response to the OP:

From the time I was a small child with my parents bringing me to church on a rare occassion the "theory" of God was mostly given to me from my parents. Probably more so my Mom than my Dad. My Mom is a brilliant woman who can explain things wonderfully to me (not to sound too Forrest Gump-ish)

Anyway, although my questions about God at an early age were not as inquisitive as they are now, the whole concept of it never seemed to make sense to me, but I accepted it because that's what Mom said.

As I started to mature, I slowly grew away from it even more, and by the time I reached high school and started taking Science class I realized that the scientific answer made a whole lot more sense. (Please, let's not go down that road again, this is just my opinion based on my own self-education).

However, I must admit, that on one of my first dates to a girl who was raised Southern Baptist she asked me if I was saved. To be quite honest, I looked her square in the face and said "From what?" I had no idea what she was talking about. She did her best to explain to me about the Christian concept of accepting Jesus otherwise I would be hell-bound. Now, of course, after listening for several weeks about this I did my best to understand it and I must admit I probably was more of a non-denominational agnostic at this point. Part of it was because I really liked this girl and wanted her to like me back so I went with it. It wasn't until I went to church with her that I realized that I had made a grave mistake. I specifically remember the preacher asking if there was anyone who wasn't saved and I raised my hand not thinking much about it. Boy, was that a mistake, I never felt so alienated in all of my life. So, they called me up there, and did this whole thing and then said I was saved. I didn't believe it when I went up there, and I didn't believe it when they said I was saved. It just didn't sit right with me, and I felt more pressured to do it than anything.

Shortly thereafter I joined the military and when they asked me what to put on my dog tags for religious affiliation I put "None", although there was an "Atheist" option. Now, I suppose it was about 5 or 6 years ago that I started to read a lot more about science and religion. The more I read, the farther I grew from any concept of God whatsoever. It wasn't like I was TRYING to do it, but I was just cuirous and I find my own set of answers.

To be quite honest, it wasn't until I arrived on this board that I had discussed religion that much with anybody. I think if you went back to my first several posts this would be blatantly clear. However, this board has driven me further from religion than any other part of my life. It is not because the people on here are stupid or ignorant, but quite the opposite. I have really had the opportunity to sit down, look at very clear concise arguments from both sides and truly feel as if I made the correct decision. I think I've seen just about every argument on this board for and against religion that I could possibly imagine and the attached links people cite are always a great help. I have learned more in the past 4-5 months on this board in terms of faith than my entire 25 years of life.

Oh, and as far as Santa is concerned.... I don't currently have children but if I do I will most certainly put up the guise that there is a Santa. I remember as a kid how excited I was when "Santa" came every year and I would want my kids to enjoy that. Besides, if I didn't do it, my parents would spoil the rotten heck out of their only grandchild anyway. I might as well have fun with it

[tennesseedreamin]

Oh no! Blue! I wasn't flaming you! I'm so sorry! I know you weren't flaming me either. I was just telling you what I believed on a matter that you explained of your beliefs, that's all. Please don't take offence, none was meant.