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I don't see why I or anyone ought to respect beliefs. If you disagree I expect you to be consistent, and not only respect my beliefs or lack of them, but a member of the Ku Klux Klan's beliefs on homosexuals,blacks, and Jews. I don't think I have the obligation to respect beliefs. What I believe I do have an obligation to respect is the rights of the individual to hold and express them. Just in case someone asks. Yes, I respect the right of a member of the Ku Klux Klan to hold,and express, in whatever way so long as it is not direct violence,any bigoted view he or she may hold. I will even say I would proudly defend the individual's right to do so. Though at no time would I respect that belief. So, tell me please why I ought to respect beliefs. Also, what does it mean to respect beliefs?Agreeing with it? Making no criticisms against it? Showing positive attitudes towards it?Showing no hatred towards it?
It's one of those morality questions which shows that a complex question can't always be answered simply 'Yes' or 'No'.
People have a right to think what they like. People should have a right to SAY what they like, but perhaps the laws or guidelines on hate speech were necessary - just as perhaps the idea of reserved posts for women and 'ethnics' (as they were designated) was necessary, though that is actually against fair play, just as is telling people they can't say This or That.
That's getting to the negotiable bit. One day perhaps we can be as offensive as we like and one would either laugh it off or seriously put in a refutation or, in fact, take the point on board if it was justified.
Right now we have to accept a few more CCTVs until we can learn to behave.
Where it gets to action, that is another matter. When you are doing something to someone else that that person doesn't want done, it has to have a very, very, very, good justification. And it is far, far, better that it be taken to some credible legal body for justice than we decide that some bastard who does not deserve to live to just be taken out - no matter what he's done.
We do not respect beliefs, we evaluate reasons. Or at least that is the ideal we should be aspiring to.
It is possible to disrespect a belief entirely, even to make a mockery of it, while still respecting the people who hold them. We should respect people, not ideas or beleifs.
As for free speech, it is as noted by other users a difficult situation at its very extremes such as hate speed or incitement to violence. Or the old cliche example of whether one has the right to shout "Fire" in a crowded theatre when there is no fire etc.
However I do draw much inspiration from an old story I read about from the 1970s in Skokie Illinois, a suburb of Chicago known for having a large number of Jewish refugees from Germany. A Nazi party was banned from doing a Swastika waving march through the area and the injuction was being contested in the courts, of all things, by the American Civil Liberties Union headed by Aryeh Neier, himself a refugee from Nazism.
Sounded weird but when asked WHY Aryeh said that The American First Amendment enshrined the right of all to Free Expression and to remove that protection, perhaps especially from the extremely unpopular, would be to dilute that protection in general if not render it meaningless.
It must be difficult for someone who is a refugee from such horrors to swallow their hatred for such people enough to wish to protect Jefferson Ideals and the freedom of expression, even for hateful monsters.
... what does it mean to respect beliefs?Agreeing with it? Making no criticisms against it? Showing positive attitudes towards it?Showing no hatred towards it?
I don't see why I or anyone ought to respect beliefs. If you disagree I expect you to be consistent, and not only respect my beliefs or lack of them, but a member of the Ku Klux Klan's beliefs on homosexuals,blacks, and Jews. I don't think I have the obligation to respect beliefs. What I believe I do have an obligation to respect is the rights of the individual to hold and express them. Just in case someone asks. Yes, I respect the right of a member of the Ku Klux Klan to hold,and express, in whatever way so long as it is not direct violence,any bigoted view he or she may hold. I will even say I would proudly defend the individual's right to do so. Though at no time would I respect that belief. So, tell me please why I ought to respect beliefs. Also, what does it mean to respect beliefs?Agreeing with it? Making no criticisms against it? Showing positive attitudes towards it?Showing no hatred towards it?
I dont respect all beliefs, religions, ideologies, philosophies as truth ... I only respect the Persons freewill to chose them if that is the case.....AND ONLY if they do not bring harm to oneself , others, or a society at large. I can live with differing beliefs, etc.. but im not called to be tolerant of each as though they are absolutely true and equally true alongside my own. Further, if anyone holds to a particular belief, etc...and have devoted themselves to it proclaiming it is the absolute truth...then I would expect them to show me why upon challenging them to do so. If someone holds something/someone in very high esteem, then there better be good logic and reason for doing so, otherwise, it is speculative opinion and a blind faith which lacks credibility.
respecting a person's right to believe and agreeing with what they believe are not the same.
I found the proverbial "Straw that broke the camels back" Or rather the last thing that made me mad enough to walk away from the group that calls itself evangelical and fundamentalist was an incident when some wacko-bully clergyman kept laughing at my beliefs. As in right in my face, like he was trying to start a fight. Now this was not the only time this has happened, but I will no longer put myself in a church setting to have it happen again, so it may have been the last.
My response was when he said "The Bible is God's Word" I just burst out laughing at him. Of course he gets mad, but in typical bully fashion my response was "Don't laugh at my beliefs and I won't laugh at yours>" He backed down after that, and it later became clear that like most clergy, his first concern (and only concern) was money and statistics.
My point is that if you are the type of person who is so insecure in his own beliefs that you are so threatened by someone, anyone having a different opinion than yours, then you do not need to be getting paid a salary to work as a religious leader. And if you have such a sense of insecurity that you are threatened by opposing teachings, then maybe deep down inside, you really are not sure of yourself or beliefs.
There is this sport out there called NASCAR. I do not like it, but I know many people who do. I know they make money doing it, get a lot of fans, and some of the fans are just rabid about it, like fans in any other sport. I have watched it and it does not interest me. BUT I am not amongst the people who make fun of NASCAR Fans, or judge them or refuse to be friends or have conversation with them because they like it. Granted, I cannot offer much to the conversation because I do not follow the sport enough to know who is who, And I will listen to someone else, and the bottom line is, I will respect the fact that they like it and never dream of derailing or interfering with their enjoyment of it.
BUT I know some who would, and I wonder what deep rooted self-esteem issues they must have to care what sport someone else follows? How judgemental must someone be?
I happen to know too many fundy Christians who cannot stand the fat that I do not attend church or support their beliefs. My money goes elsewhere and they cannot stand that. My question is "WHY? why do you care? is it about the money? is it because of the group psychology element that makes you think if everyone else believes it, it must be right? (informational conformity perhaps?) Solomon Asch study social pressure conformity experiment psychology
well, yeah, this being the same guy who did not like Chinese food, told me how Chinese wer e communists, therefore atheists and all atheists are satanists (Everything to him was "Satanic" ) and if you eat chinese food you are glorifying satan, hence he does not eat it....
Lots of kooks in every department I guess......
OK I have spent my life reading and studying philosophy, religions, faiths etc. That was my usherance OUT of evangelical/fundy Christianity all those years ago. The "truth" is not there.....
And I wonder, as I mentioned in a different thread, is non-theism our final revelation after years of asking why, checking things out, experimenting and searching? Perhaps spiritual atheism IS the key
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