Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Which I think implies the poster is either deliberately provocative or has psychological issues. In general, I stay away from the religion forum because I am simply not interested in arguing scriptural legalism with idiots. (Yeah, I said it.) I sometimes think the entire forum could use a refresher course in how to engage in a rousing discussion without coming across as an condescending and insufferable jerk. There is simply no reason for the type of post that started this thread, i.e., how sorry do you feel for religious people? Seriously? That's obnoxious.
These are the kinds of questions a person has when they first deconvert. I, and many others, go through an anger phase as well. I think it's to be expected when someone has their whole belief system crumble down around them. It would be a mistake for anyone to be taking it personally .
These are the kinds of questions a person has when they first deconvert. I, and many others, go through an anger phase as well. I think it's to be expected when someone has their whole belief system crumble down around them. It would be a mistake for anyone to be taking it personally.
Fair point. A little tolerance on all sides will go a long way. I'll keep that in mind.
Which I think implies the poster is either deliberately provocative or has psychological issues. In general, I stay away from the religion forum because I am simply not interested in arguing scriptural legalism with idiots. (Yeah, I said it.) I sometimes think the entire forum could use a refresher course in how to engage in a rousing discussion without coming across as an condescending and insufferable jerk. There is simply no reason for the type of post that started this thread, i.e., how sorry do you feel for religious people? Seriously? That's obnoxious.
Yes, it's so much more obnoxious than telling people that they're going to hell because they haven't been born again.
I was being facetious. I'm happily married to an Atheist, and I think everyone needs to mind their own business. The OP is being obnoxious in his overwrought concern over how his church-going friends spend the time. Christians are not looking for sympathy. They're generally happy with their lives, just as I believe Atheists are with theirs.
Ok. I was with you thus far, but the rest of your posts was the kind of post wondering why atheists spend so much of their time doing this, and usually suggesting that something is wrong with those who do.
That part didn't look facetious and makes a point that needs answering even if you were,
There are many who have a problem with "New" outspoken atheism including some who might be irreligious or actually married to an atheist, and in such circumstances, I can understand why they may have a problem with those who rock the boat like we do.
I don't have a season ticket to Galadriel's cyberafe so I can't prove that the present situation where an irreligious theist can declare he ain't going to church any more, or someone can be Unequally yoked, and no problem, would not have come about through a general change in human perception and without atheists doing anything other that staying quiet, unheard and unaware that there are any out there like them. But .neither can I discount the very short odds that, if we had done that, Fundamentalists Christianity would be running america from the White house to Pensecola Creationist college, and your atheist husband would be out of a job if not in jail even if you had been allowed to marry.
I could be wrong about much of the easy - going relations today between the religious and the goddless being due to our constant pushing for it (1), but in any case, there is more to be done, and the amount of effort being put into the sort of religion that would not regard your husband as a citizen or a Patriot or your marriage valid in the sight of God is really quite impressive.
No, you shouldn't be worrying about New Atheism, but about what would happen if we weren't doing our thing and Nones or silent atheists allowed the Fundy Right to stack the Congressional deck even more than it is now.
And for us, the second biggest worry after the continuing hacking at the church state divide are those who ought to be supporting us telling us that there is something wrong with us.
(1) kitzmiller v. dover Law trial for instance might have happened anyway even if an atheist hadn't started the case, but then the intention was to have the case where the creationists could stack the courtroom and win. They could not choose their ground and they lot. If they had not, you kids might be learning YE creationism at a school near you.
Ok. I was with you thus far, but the rest of your posts was the kind of post wondering why atheists spend so much of their time doing this, and usually suggesting that something is wrong with those who do.
That part didn't look facetious and makes a point that needs answering even if you were,
There are many who have a problem with "New" outspoken atheism including some who might be irreligious or actually married to an atheist, and in such circumstances, I can understand why they may have a problem with those who rock the boat like we do.
I don't have a season ticket to Galadriel's cyberafe so I can't prove that the present situation where an irreligious theist can declare he ain't going to church any more, or someone can be Unequally yoked, and no problem, would not have come about through a general change in human perception and without atheists doing anything other that staying quiet, unheard and unaware that there are any out there like them. But .neither can I discount the very short odds that, if we had done that, Fundamentalists Christianity would be running america from the White house to Pensecola Creationist college, and your atheist husband would be out of a job if not in jail even if you had been allowed to marry.
I could be wrong about much of the easy - going relations today between the religious and the goddless being due to our constant pushing for it (1), but in any case, there is more to be done, and the amount of effort being put into the sort of religion that would not regard your husband as a citizen or a Patriot or your marriage valid in the sight of God is really quite impressive.
No, you shouldn't be worrying about New Atheism, but about what would happen if we weren't doing our thing and Nones or silent atheists allowed the Fundy Right to stack the Congressional deck even more than it is now.
And for us, the second biggest worry after the continuing hacking at the church state divide are those who ought to be supporting us telling us that there is something wrong with us.
(1) kitzmiller v. dover Law trial for instance might have happened anyway even if an atheist hadn't started the case, but then the intention was to have the case where the creationists could stack the courtroom and win. They could not choose their ground and they lot. If they had not, you kids might be learning YE creationism at a school near you.
Let me be clear that I fully support the separation of church and state and efforts to ensure it stays that way.
Interesting. I don’t have anything to argue against but I do have question where I am genuinely intereted to know, and if you kindly explain as to what exactly are those “Little pleasures of life” that religious people miss out on, because they think God is watching?
Hello, GoCardinals:
Yes, mensaguy has hit upon a few of the simple little pleasures that some religious people miss out on. Now, keep in mind, I realize that most Christians don't carry their religion to these kinds of extremes, but the extremists *are* out there, and there's more of them than you might think (kind of like atheists).
Some simple pleasures might include:
Women being allowed to wear make-up, pants, and get their hair permed.
Playing an awesome game of Dungeons and Dragons with good friends, good comaraderie, and lots of pizza.
Being able to watch certain kinds of movies
Being able to listen to music that isn't all about praising god (as per usual)
Dancing
Being able to self-identify through your fashions instead of being put into such a strict dress code that you might as well be wearing a uniform
Playing any sort of game of chance
Being able to ENJOY yourself on a Sunday, perhaps engaging in a personal hobby, instead of having to worry about whether you're doing "work" or not.
Doing something on Sunday instead of going to church
NO FASTING
Or, how about, being able to simply enjoy pleasure instead of avoiding it because your religion teaches you that pleasure is "of this world" and you are not a part of that
(I have the opposite view; in fact, I believe in Neo-Epicureanism whereby one should always be seeking pleasure -- but not irresponsible pleasure in the sense of wanton hedonism. It's also not just physical pleasure but intellectual, emotional, spiritual ... a wholistic approach to pleasure.
You try to find a career that brings pleasure, you bring people into your life that bring you pleasure, you develop hobbies that bring pleasure, and learning new things -- one of my biggest pleasures. Too bad most people in America are still corrupted by the old Puritan Protestant work ethic that says "Idle hands are the devil's workshop" -- which many translate into the need to ALWAYS be working and doing something productive; games are not productive hence, they are to be avoided. Pleasure and leisure pursuits should be pursued with the same vigor and seriousness as you would a career. Few people do that, which is why, even in an age when we have more leisure time than ever before, everyone always to damn BUSY to do anything fun. Imagine that ... and I think this is a leading cause for the constant stream of school and workplace shootings -- too much work, too much stress, and almost no fun, pleasurable downtime)
I know that certain Christians find anything non-religiously pleasurable as dangerous -- because you need to be fixated on God 24 hours/day, 7 days/week, 4 weeks/month, 12 months/year, 10/years a decade, 100 years/century ... and so on. Worldly pleasures can easily make you forget about God for awhile and, well, we certainly can't have THAT, now, can we. I actually DO feel sorry for those kinds of people.
Of course, there's being able to have sex before marriage.
Being able to read certain books (i.e. Harry Potter) or see certain statues (i.e. Venus Di Milo) without thinking you're offending God (Oh no, witchcraft and exposed breasts!)
Or how about -- being able to leave your home unescorted, being able to freely associate with members of the opposite sex, being able to drive a car, being able to have a career, being able to vote, being able to fly a kite, being able to listen to music, being able to dress in real clothes rather than a black head-to-toe sack, being able to marry whom I choose, to not have acid thrown in your face if you fall in love with the wrong person or because I tried to secretly get an education -- or be the victim of an 'honor killing' (Just ask a lot of Islamic women if their husbands will let you talk to them)
The list is quite extensive so I can't provide an exhaustive list. In short, you can pick any activity you can think of and it's almost guaranteed that some religion or religious denomination will say it's sinful, wrong, evil, and should be banned (or IS banned).
Plus, I also understand that *some* people have no desire to do any of these things -- or the things mensaguy listed -- and that's fine if that's how they want to live (I'll still feel sorry for them though). But the moment they try foisting their restrictive lifestyle onto me, the claws come out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
Which in turn, makes them people of dark ages and a danger to life in America?
Actually you're inadvertantly mixing two different points here ... might have been my fault in that I worded it ambiguously.
I didn't mean to say that "missing out on life's little pleasures" would put us back into the Dark Ages or that it's a threat to America.
No, the Dark Ages and the threat comes from those who actively oppose science and worse, run and operate schools that teach children that science is wrong -- because the Bible is right. If one wants to believe that God created evolution, be my guest, but saying it's wrong and LYING about it (which they do) is a direct threat toward Americans being able to function in a global economy. Our education is abysmal -- and I know because I've gone to school on 4 different continents (our colleges and universities are the best, however). Part of the reason for our horrible intellectual performance when compared to other Westernized, industrial nations is because of our anomalous religiosity. And it shouldn't come as any surprise that American kids perform the worst in science and math. No shocker there.
There are other factors, too, of course, such as the fact that our culture in America puts almost ZERO emphasis on intellectual pursuits and even sees intelligent people as threatening, intimidating, arrogant, show-offs, nerds, geeks, and people to be shunned. (If you'll pardon the conceit -- I've had to pretend to be a lot dumber than I am many times for this reason).
But, religion still plays a large role.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
And what’s your hybrid part of American accent? Persian I suppose, as Shirina or Shirin means sweet in the Persian language?
Nope, I'm not Persian -- closest I came to that was living in Morocco for a year, but they're mostly Sunni Muslims while Iran (Persia) are Shia.
Mensaguy (or Transponder?) was correct in saying I was born in India. Hindi was my first language (though I'm VERY rusty with it now) and I learned English in Britain (I moved to Milton-Keynes, UK when I was 9).
So ... most Americans will only hear a British accent, but the British will hear a hybrid accent (according to my friends there) which is an odd mixture of Hindi, American, and, to their ears, regular Brit talk.
I've only met a handful of Americans who thought my British accent was "off" somehow due to my Hindi roots.
Take care.
Oh, by the way, Shirina is my middle name; it also means "night" in Hindi. My mother must've known I'd grow up to be a consummate night owl and avid morning-hater.
There are other factors, too, of course, such as the fact that our culture in America puts almost ZERO emphasis on intellectual pursuits and even sees intelligent people as threatening, intimidating, arrogant, show-offs, nerds, geeks, and people to be shunned. (If you'll pardon the conceit -- I've had to pretend to be a lot dumber than I am many times for this reason).
The existence of this bias is very evident in these fora, Shirina.
I don't feel sorry for them. Humans need something to believe in. Religion, heroine, alcohol, world travel, continuing education, whatever.
I would change that to some humans. OCD or OCDPD.
but you you are correct. Its in our programing. Its just a matter of where it settles.
good insight
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
