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For one thing I didn't feel like listening to the responses of Christians here. But I thought I was pretty clear that this is directed at atheists and agnostics who are interested in church. If you think they are not interested in church, then you have obviously never attended a Unitarian church.
But I can understand anyone being hesitant to attend a more evangelical church. It usually has a lot more of that oppressive/weird/spiritualism. I hate that part of the church service.
But I am perfectly comfortable in a mainline church. I'm equally comfortable in charismatic churches because, oddly, they are not as judgmental, argumentative, etc.
^I am in a believer in something I call "God", and I belong to a Christian community as noted above for a number of reasons I won't go into here, but I think all spiritual paths are just us trying to figure out that thing that connects us. Some on this forum have used the term "sortagod", and I kind of like that. I am not an atheist. I think there is something, but it's not easily defined or identified. It just is. I don't think God is a person. I think people make God into a person. Or Persons.
I have been in two small churches, both liberal Episcopal parishes, in the past 25 years, with a large gap between the two, but frankly, the drive to go was social, not spiritual. I did get some spiritual growth out of them, but nothing that compares to standing at the edge of the ocean or walking in the woods.
I'm a 9/11 WTC survivor. I've seen what religion can do, and I don't just mean that of the terrorists (I currently work for Pakistani-Amerrican Muslim engineers, a husband and wife.) The reaction to the attacks by Christians using the event as a recruiting tool pissed me off no end. My Muslim/Hindu/Jew/Atheist/Christian coworkers ran out of that building with me. It was a place where people of so many backgrounds got along every day, and it was destroyed by people who saw us as a Them. The answer is NOT to respond by turning others into a Them, especially by claiming you've got the right religion.
Anyway, that's my song since that day.
I don't care what spiritual path anyone else chooses to walk as long as it is personal to them and they don't use it to try to control others. And I am glad to live in a place where that door-knocking nonsense isn't a thing.
I don't want to answer for MightyQueen but I consider her a Liberal Christian or Theist.
But to some of the Christians here that is equivalent to being a Satan-Worshipping Atheist.
That's good enough, Ozzy!
And getting back to the topic, besides the liberal and sensible outlook in the Episcopal church, I do like the ritual. Communion is similar to the Catholic Church. We recite a bunch of things I don't actually believe, then we all line up for a wafer and sip of wine (or grape juice for those who can't take wine). The symbols and colors all have meaning--a feast for a person with OCD!
And sometimes, not always, but sometimes, a feeling of Oneness, of Connectedness seems to pervade the space. I think that's what performing ritual brings to a community. It may not really matter what the ritual is.
I don't want to answer for MightyQueen but I consider her a Liberal Christian or Theist.
But to some of the Christians here that is equivalent to being a Satan-Worshipping Atheist.
Nothing like it to let the irreligious theists and sortagod -agnostics see who their friends really are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
That's good enough, Ozzy!
And getting back to the topic, besides the liberal and sensible outlook in the Episcopal church, I do like the ritual. Communion is similar to the Catholic Church. We recite a bunch of things I don't actually believe, then we all line up for a wafer and sip of wine (or grape juice for those who can't take wine). The symbols and colors all have meaning--a feast for a person with OCD!
And sometimes, not always, but sometimes, a feeling of Oneness, of Connectedness seems to pervade the space. I think that's what performing ritual brings to a community. It may not really matter what the ritual is.
It won't be a secret to some here that despite not believing it (well I never really did but was giving the method a whack to try to do what Mystic did - meditate a way the Experience) I maintain a liking for Buddhist (warts ..serious ones... and all..) culture, really, and you may check my 4 blogs fo a view of my household shrine.
And yet I'd consider myself a militant atheist. Go figure...
But what does any of that have to do with Atheism or Agnosticism?
I'm pretty sure most Atheists and Agnostics are not considering the mechanisms of religious assembly, in fact probably couldn't care less.
my $.02
It's question for atheists to consider. You have to bear in mind that without theism, atheism wouldn't exist, just as without historical male relegation of women to baby -breeders and playthings, if not unpaid servants, there wouldn't be a need for feminism.
This forum doesn't talk about atheism apart from the occasional update on statistics. We don't talk about it. There is nothing to talk about. I attended One atheist meet -up in a pub, and we talked about anything but atheism and then went for a curry.
It is purely driven by the claim and especially the influence of religion. So anything about countering those claims and especially rolling back the influence (so that the nation and in time the world can be a non -religious society so that everyone's religion is their own affair and not imposed by church or state) is all needful and useful, including all manner of peripheral stuff like rhetoric, physics, geology, genetics, ethics, philosophy, history, comparative religion, archaeology, rocket -science, Law, cosmology, mythology, anthropology, theology, sociology, palaeontology and meteorology. Oh yes, and the Bible.
And a characteristic of this discipline of atheist apologetics (which had only recently even had anything like educational discipline -status let alone a qualification) is that you have to become a jack of all trades but cannot afford to be a master of any of them And you have to learn all the time, and quickly. And one of the best ways to learn is to be questioned by people rolling up on A/A to try to wrongfoot us.
And of course my lengthy reply was not a slapdown but a respectful explanation to your very pertinent and useful question. That's how it works.
Nothing like it to let the irreligious theists and sortagod -agnostics see who their friends really are.
It won't be a secret to some here that despite not believing it (well I never really did but was giving the method a whack to try to do what Mystic did - meditate a way the Experience) I maintain a liking for Buddhist (warts ..serious ones... and all..) culture, really, and you may check my 4 blogs fo a view of my household shrine.
And yet I'd consider myself a militant atheist. Go figure...
You get together with other people once or twice a week. You connect with other people, getting to know them and getting to know about their families and lives.
The "Magic Thing" that draws everyone together is the religious aspect. That sounds like an unnecessary and even immature thing, but really, it's the most important thing because without it people would have no excuse to get together.
Choosing a religion isn't really any different than choosing a sports team. Look at that quote above and make the context about people getting together every Sunday and performing rituals (eating something, drinking something, talking about the past accomplishments of the team they "believe in") while watching a sport like football.
It is a great excuse for people of likemindedness to get together.
I make my "community" elsewhere - music groups that we play with, pickleball, a group of crochet/knit friends who meet at the local yarn shop a couple times a month. There is certainly ritual and discussion in all that, but religion (and politics) aren't discussed. Part of that is that I live in a very "non-churchy" place.
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Choosing a religion isn't really any different than choosing a sports team. Look at that quote above and make the context about people getting together every Sunday and performing rituals (eating something, drinking something, talking about the past accomplishments of the team they "believe in") while watching a sport like football.
It is a great excuse for people of likemindedness to get together.
Yes. It's the same thing.
One thing that I think is similar to church is the Star Trek fan club. Or any similar sci-fi or fantasy club. It's basically a group of like-minded people who share similar values and who imagine a better world. Isn't that kind of like religion? The difference between the religious and non-religious groups is about their literal belief Vs symbolic belief, but the core values could actually be the same between the two types. And I think that there is a core value system among all human beings.
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Nothing like it to let the irreligious theists and sortagod -agnostics see who their friends really are.
and all..) culture, really, and you may check my 4 blogs fo a view of my household shrine. 
